well, ordinary means a god with no supernatural powers just an intelligent being bound to universe's nature.:) He just started the big bang than universe formed itself. Can he predict future events starting from big bang?
Think about it, possiblities are just factors we dont know. in fact every action has only one result no matter how complicated the action was. If you know all possible factors that will effect the event, you may calculate its end. Like knowing the result of two trains coming against each other on one rail.
So can a god possibly predict everything after big bang?

(August 21, 2010 at 9:57 pm)annatar Wrote: So can a god possibly predict everything after big bang?

That's the interesting thing, realistically, he can't possibly. The Biblical God in Genesis didn't even know where Adam's exact whereabouts in the Garden of Eden were.

However theists assert he is outside space-time therefore has already seen everything before it happened but of course logically we must ask them, at what time interval did god initiate the current-universe and how could he if he's transcendent to begin with?

Monotheists never seem to share the same beliefs regarding their one true god's attributes of omnipresence and omniscience. It always fascinates me how much these intuitions of theirs differ from each other, just the other day a close relative openly stated that "god is dead".

At first I thought this was a coining of the phrase from philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche, but actually the opposite was true, he believed god existed and died in a literal sense – he believed god for unknown reasons tried and failed to create a companion, another God, in the void and exploded (probably borrowing from the Big Bang theory no doubt). He went on to say God's deceased remains (matter, energy etc) make up the cosmos.

I told him the hypothesis holds as much weight as the almighty all-fat all-large Hippopotamus farting out the current universe as we know it. Needless to say that didn't go down well... I didn't realise he was being serious about his position.

Your friend is more ignorant of Christianity than you are Welsh Cake. I guess he's the nominal kind of Christian.
1. If God is omniscient and timeless then God knows everything in this time frame.
2. The garden of Eden story is a myth*.
3. All mainstream Christians agree on the attributes of God

* I don't mean “myth” in the pejorative sense common in anti-theist sentiment, viz. an invented or imaginary story. I mean it in the real and classic sense of “a traditional, typically ancient story dealing with supernatural beings, ancestors, or heroes that serves as a fundamental type in the worldview of a people, as by explaining aspects of the natural world or delineating the psychology, customs, or ideals of society” (as found in The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition. Houghton Mifflin Company, 2004). (- courtesy Arcanus)

(August 22, 2010 at 5:50 am)fr0d0 Wrote: * I don't mean “myth” in the pejorative sense common in anti-theist sentiment, viz. an invented or imaginary story. I mean it in the real and classic sense of “a traditional, typically ancient story dealing with supernatural beings, ancestors, or heroes that serves as a fundamental type in the worldview of a people, as by explaining aspects of the natural world or delineating the psychology, customs, or ideals of society” (as found in The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition. Houghton Mifflin Company, 2004). (- courtesy Arcanus)

In other words, an invented or imaginary story.

Yes. Certainly not fact.

(August 21, 2010 at 9:57 pm)annatar Wrote: well, ordinary means a god with no supernatural powers just an intelligent being bound to universe's nature. He just started the big bang than universe formed itself. Can he predict future events starting from big bang?
Think about it, possiblities are just factors we dont know. in fact every action has only one result no matter how complicated the action was. If you know all possible factors that will effect the event, you may calculate its end. Like knowing the result of two trains coming against each other on one rail.
So can a god possibly predict everything after big bang?

I think more to the point a diestic god, as described here, wouldn't care.

@ Frodo intersting point here though, are christians universally determinists? And would you say diests were?

If Christians agree that God knows everything & that is determinism then yes.

wikipedia Wrote:Deism, a philosophy articulated in the seventeenth century, holds that the universe has been deterministic since creation, but ascribes the creation to a metaphysical God or first cause outside of the chain of determinism. God may have begun the process, Deism argues, but God has not influenced its progression

(August 22, 2010 at 8:33 am)fr0d0 Wrote: If Christians agree that God knows everything & that is determinism then yes.

wikipedia Wrote:Deism, a philosophy articulated in the seventeenth century, holds that the universe has been deterministic since creation, but ascribes the creation to a metaphysical God or first cause outside of the chain of determinism. God may have begun the process, Deism argues, but God has not influenced its progression

interesting re christians. So would It follow that if the universe was underministic that Christianity was false? Or is there a get of jail card on this?

Understnad the definition of deism, however it doesn't necessarily follow that all deists are determinists. Just wondered if you had a view?

Yes I think it would be false.

No view no. It's not something I'm very familiar with.

(August 22, 2010 at 3:41 am)Welsh cake Wrote: At first I thought this was a coining of the phrase from philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche, but actually the opposite was true, he believed god existed and died in a literal sense – he believed god for unknown reasons tried and failed to create a companion, another God, in the void and exploded (probably borrowing from the Big Bang theory no doubt). He went on to say God's deceased remains (matter, energy etc) make up the cosmos.

so he created his own myth.. actually it reminds me of the story of Ymir, Scandinavian god of giants.
According to their myths world created by his remains (his bones became mountains etc..)