(February 28, 2015 at 5:39 pm)Ignorant Wrote: Could you classify it? No. Could you judge it as either causing an increase or a decrease in desire upon obtaining it? Yes. When did "classify" begin to mean the same thing as judge? Perhaps that is our confusion.

...There is definitely confusion but I don't know if what you've just said points to a direction of clarity, but I'll try to follow you as best I can...

(February 28, 2015 at 5:39 pm)Ignorant Wrote: In order to classify something, it MUST be done in reference to judgments about it and other things. In order to judge something as good, bad, whatever, it does not require other things. It merely requires the test of satisfaction or not satisfaction.

It sounds like you're wanting me to imagine a scenario with just me and an apple (no other things required, correct?). You want me to imagine the moment I feel compelled to sink my teeth into it. At that moment, I make a judgement about my Apple-biting experience, and that judgement will be based only on whether I got pleasure from eating the apple, or experienced a decrease in pleasure, correct?

I think I see where you're going, and I just want to make sure that I've heard you correctly before I point out what I think to be the flaw in this line of reasoning. In order to avoid adding further confusion, I'll wait...

---

(February 28, 2015 at 5:39 pm)Ignorant Wrote: They are not mutually exclusive terms. There are active and judging subjects that encounter and try to make sense of the objects in the world, and there are the objects in the world whose reality is encountered by acting and judging subjects.

I just wanted to make sure that we nailed that down. Sometimes it seems like people believe that if something is subjective then there is nothing objective to be extracted from it. We're making tracks here, making tracks!...lets nail some more of this down...

---

(February 28, 2015 at 5:39 pm)Ignorant Wrote: Have you ever said that a song is good without reference to some other song? I know I have.

One last thing...

I don't believe you've ever said "that song was good" without ever having heard other songs.

...This may be where this "Judge/Classify" distinction is causing confusion. I'll come back to this.

OK ignorant, thanks for the reply Sorry if I misunderstood or misrepresented your views, which it looks like I did.

I wonder if it would help to specify the accusations against God?
This is tricky because there is so much variety in the Christian beliefs.

How about?
(1) original sin inherited by all humans
(2) redemptive sacrifice of Jesus
(3) hell for anybody who doesn't agree with God

Sounds evil to me. (Of course not all Christians believe those points.)

Right. What's the difference between God and a tyrant who orders your worship by threatening you with extreme punishment if you don't? Even if a particular christian doesn't believe in the standard hell, the soul is still being held hostage, and your overall life span will be reduced by an infinite amount by not worshipping him. Sounds like blackmail to me.

Add 'allowing mass genocide and worldwide suffering' to the list. And allowing other religions to exist, causing billions of people who were born in the wrong place to hypothetically go to hell.

Competing warmongering gods make far more sense of everything than one god who is incapable of convincing people over long distances and thinks war is funny.

Ignorant?


Where ya at, buddy?

(February 28, 2015 at 5:48 pm)abaris Wrote:

(February 28, 2015 at 5:16 pm)Godschild Wrote: Also the water torture they used would actually drown people, they poured the water directly into the nostrils slowly until they had to breath, what they breathed was water.

GC

What does you make an expert on how water torture is handled by the CIA? And even if it turns out to be a bit different, does it make it all right then?

And before you ask, my family also lived through WWII and it's atrocities. As fugitives from Hitler. If anything it makes me more sensible to hypocrisy. Such as hiring Wernher von Braun or japanese scientists, who did biological experiments on humans because their knowledge on how to kill people efficently by using germs might prove useful some time.

The process the CIA used was to put a rag over the face and pour the water on the rag, it was demonstrated here on several occasions. Many Americans died trough water torture at the hands of the Japanese, drowning was the cause, murder.
So you believe my thoughts about WWII are wrong, interesting for someone who had family hunted like they were mangy dogs. The government was trying to make sure that we were not caught with no defense against such weapons, weapons that should not have been, but were inevitable because of the evil heart of man.

GC

Lets see

original sin
Job
flooded the earth
hardened the pharaohs heart.
created evil
etc

Yeah god isn't good he is the complete opposite of good.