(August 27, 2010 at 8:30 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: In my opinion you are simply lacking in knowledge of what religion offers Ace. You pick and choose what you want from it, and then deride it.

I know full well what religion is "supposedly" offering you young hairy footed hobit.
It's just, I'm not buying any of it. It offers an afterlife....when you are long dead!
It offers you happiness...when I already poses that.
It offers you an escape from problems....yet I've never seen god pay up any bills.

Like a corrupt company trying to sell you it's shoddy goods. I'm not buying any of it.
I know what religion is offering frodo. I'm just not buying it.
Evidence is the only way for me to be convinced. Words and promises mean nothing to me.

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Do keep in mind frodo that you see gain and such from religion/god because you already believe in it.
I don't. My world/reality does not have a god or afterlife in it. To convince me of there being such a being and a place would require evidence.
It doesn't matter what religion offers, but can it support it's claims?

I don't pick or choose parts of any religion. Since I reject the whole thing. God/religion plays no role in my life at all, and I like it this way.

Like I said Ace, you severely lack knowledge of what you attempt to criticise, and therefore are ineffectual.

Christianity supports all of it's claims. The evidence you look for isn't one of them unfortunately.

(August 27, 2010 at 9:53 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Christianity supports all of it's claims.

?!?with what dose it support it with ..warm fuzzy feelings and the voice in my head tells me im right??? Christianity supports NONE of its claims with evedence... In many cases there is evedence to the contrary....

(August 27, 2010 at 9:53 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Like I said Ace, you severely lack knowledge of what you attempt to criticise, and therefore are ineffectual.

Christianity supports all of it's claims. The evidence you look for isn't one of them unfortunately.

I do understand what christianity is frodo. There are atheists out there who were once very strong believers in christianity and still end up turning away from it. It's got nothing to do with lack of understanding. Though I never believed in god/ be part of a religion, this doesn't mean I lack understanding. I want evidence, nothing less.

Quote:Christianity supports all of it's claims.

Christianity supports it's claims? Well then, care to show us some evidence (verifiable evidence).
Personal experiance won't do I'm affraid.

I think, Xyster summed it all up.

You clearly lack knowledge of what Christianity is Ace. That's blatantly obvious and demonstrated clearly by your request for verifiable evidence. You don't know what it is you're asking for.

I'd be very interested in verifiable evidence for the non existence of God too.

(August 28, 2010 at 7:15 am)fr0d0 Wrote: I'd be very interested in verifiable evidence for the non existence of God too.

I'm game.

There have been many claims for what god has done.

A: Create the world in six days then go off for a fag.
B: Flood the world commiting one the most horrendous acts of genocide in all fiction.
C: Create all animals(in a day).
D: Part the red sea.

the list goes on and on and NOT ONE of these stands up to any sort of scientific probing as being true.

So on the balance of probability I find god non-existant, except as a fictional character.

Basically my argument boils down to this.

Everything that exists can be demonstrated to exist with relevant evidence, if there is no evidence, then chances are it doesnt exist.

You wont accept this of course, but it is my stance.

I see no scientific claims dbp. I also see no statement that covers the existence of something supernatural.

(August 28, 2010 at 7:15 am)fr0d0 Wrote: You clearly lack knowledge of what Christianity is Ace. That's blatantly obvious and demonstrated clearly by your request for verifiable evidence. You don't know what it is you're asking for.

I'd be very interested in verifiable evidence for the non existence of God too.

Quote:You clearly lack knowledge of what Christianity is Ace.

You are free to believe in whatever as you know.

Quote:blatantly obvious and demonstrated clearly by your request for verifiable evidence.

God is a claim, a claim that has gone unsupported and so rightly rejected. Asking for some verifiable evidence is expected. Theists seem to hate it when we ask for verifiable evidence. Purhaps because they know that they cannot provide that. No evidence = No case.

Quote:You don't know what it is you're asking for.

Evidence, that's what I'm asking for. Verifiable evidence.

Quote:I'd be very interested in verifiable evidence for the non existence of God too.

I'm not claiming that god doesn't exist though. I'm an agnostic atheist remember. I'm not required or expected to prove or disprove anything. One of the great things about being an agnostic atheist is that I'm not claiming anything and so I'm not expected to prove or disprove anything.
Your claim, you prove it.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Christianity claims that God answers prayers and performs miracles. These things are empirically verifiable. No evidence has been found that prayer is effective, and no miracle has been proven beyond reasonable doubt to be supernatural.

(August 28, 2010 at 10:20 am)The Omnissiunt One Wrote: Christianity claims that God answers prayers and performs miracles. These things are empirically verifiable. No evidence has been found that prayer is effective, and no miracle has been proven beyond reasonable doubt to be supernatural.

It also claims that we have an immaterial essence which will survive our death, when all evidence demomstrates we are material beings of finite existence. The afterlife has never been objectively shown to exist.

Jesus (a finite, limited, material man) was also a god (infinite, unlimited, immaterial personal being). Therefore he was a logical impossibility and either didn't exist or was not a god.

Jesus was bodily resurrected to heaven to dwell with god in heaven. God who is immaterial and exists only in a supernatural realm, meaning Jesus as a bodily resurrected human could not have passed into heaven.