(April 6, 2015 at 4:30 pm)Bad Wolf Wrote:

(April 6, 2015 at 3:52 pm)Heywood Wrote: If there is a second doctor standing right there to serve the patient, why shouldn't the first have the right to refuse for any reason?

Basically what esquilax said, this is the job. Why should they get paid for not doing their job. Also, what if the second doctor refuses and the third and the fourth and the fifth? What happens when, lets say a really hated person like Hitler is in need of medical assistance or he will die. What happens when everybody refuses to treat him. He dies. Sure, he deserves it, but that isn't how our justice system works and it's a slippery slope.  Where do you draw the line?

If the doctor billed for seeing a patient they did not see that would be fraud and the doctor should be prosecuted.  If the doctor doesn't bill the doctor doesn't get paid so Esquilax and your concern here is a hollow one.  If the doctor is an employee, then it really between the employer and the employee.....even though you progressotard always like to stick your noses in others people business....its really none of your concern.  

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(April 6, 2015 at 7:50 pm)Brakeman Wrote: I'd bet that the doctor has a business license that permitted him to do business in that county, I bet he had a tax ID a for both state and federal, I'd bet he has business, building, and fire insurance. I'd bet that he has a medical degree from a university. I'd bet that he is probably a member of the AMA and other associations. And lastly, I'd bet that he has lots of business dealings with several suppliers, utilities, and pharmaceutical companies that ALL CHOSE NOT TO DISCRIMINATE AGAINST HIM, yet he feels that he should be allowed to discriminate on whatever grounds he chooses.

If only one out of twenty or so of the businesses he must deal with chose to discriminate against him, he would be out of business or at least very inconvenienced. If every business chose something to discriminate against, all commerce would cease. SO it is easy to see why for the common good the nation should not allow discrimination that does not benefit the common welfare.

Private individuals or private companies should be allowed to discriminate against the doctor if they don't like her. 

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(April 6, 2015 at 11:12 pm)Desert Diva Wrote: If I take a job at McDonald's, I don't get to then whine that I can't cook burgers because I'm a religious vegetarian.  Likewise, if a doctor doesn't want to do his or her fucking job and take care of patients, all patients, he went into the wrong field.

There is no law that states doctors have to take care of all patients.  Doctors get to pick and choose their patients.  McDonalds can refuse service to any customer as long as they are not refusing service because they are a protected class.

Like I said, trying to talk ethics with a sociopath is like trying to talk about colors with a blind person. Heywood, you just don't have a working conscience. That doesn't make you special, it makes you a broken excuse for a human.

(April 7, 2015 at 1:54 am)Heywood Wrote:

(April 6, 2015 at 4:30 pm)Bad Wolf Wrote: Basically what esquilax said, this is the job. Why should they get paid for not doing their job. Also, what if the second doctor refuses and the third and the fourth and the fifth? What happens when, lets say a really hated person like Hitler is in need of medical assistance or he will die. What happens when everybody refuses to treat him. He dies. Sure, he deserves it, but that isn't how our justice system works and it's a slippery slope.  Where do you draw the line?

If the doctor billed for seeing a patient they did not see that would be fraud and the doctor should be prosecuted.  If the doctor doesn't bill the doctor doesn't get paid so Esquilax and your concern here is a hollow one.  If the doctor is an employee, then it really between the employer and the employee.....even though you progressotard always like to stick your noses in others people business....its really none of your concern.  

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So basically you're okay with doctors getting punished or fired for their discriminatory behavior, you just don't want the rationale to be anything that might cut into your baseless, arbitrary bigotry.

Wow, what a fucking principled hero of the downtrodden christians you are.

(April 6, 2015 at 4:42 pm)vorlon13 Wrote: If a medical practitioner can't put aside his personal angle in regards to treatment, maybe it's best in a nonemergency situation to get a referral to a different physician.

And people want to make it illegal for health care providers to do so if you are gay.  Does that really make any sense at all?

Make it illegal and the provider is going to bite his lip and provide the care instead of getting sued, or fined, or rehabilitated by the state.  All the while in the back of his/her mind he/she is going to be uncomfortable and bolstering him or herself so those negative consequences don't come to pass. Brain power that should be used to diagnosis and treat you is going to be tied up dealing with his/her own discomfort and finding the strength to do what they don't want to do.

Why?  So people like Esquilax don't get butthurt cause some doctor somewhere doesn't want to behave they way he thinks they should behave.

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(April 7, 2015 at 2:11 am)Esquilax Wrote:

(April 7, 2015 at 1:54 am)Heywood Wrote: If the doctor billed for seeing a patient they did not see that would be fraud and the doctor should be prosecuted.  If the doctor doesn't bill the doctor doesn't get paid so Esquilax and your concern here is a hollow one.  If the doctor is an employee, then it really between the employer and the employee.....even though you progressotard always like to stick your noses in others people business....its really none of your concern.  

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So basically you're okay with doctors getting punished or fired for their discriminatory behavior, you just don't want the rationale to be anything that might cut into your baseless, arbitrary bigotry.

Wow, what a fucking principled hero of the downtrodden christians you are.

I am okay with doctors getting punished for committing fraud or violating the terms of their employment.  What part about that is difficult for you to understand?  Are you really this dense?

One's personal life and one's professional life have no business interfering with one another.

The fact that there are people who want to bring their personal private beliefs into their public and professional lives demonstrates that they are wholly unprofessional.

The fact that there are now doctors who are doing this bullshit shows they are also completely unethical. "Do no harm." If you refuse treatment to someone because of your own biased personal out-of-profession beliefs, you are doing harm by leaving them suffering and/or untreated. Unprofessional, unethical.

So, yes, it makes sense to make it illegal for a healthcare provider to say "no" to treating someone because of their sexual orientation. You are a medical professional, not a fucking judge of character; shut the fuck up and do your fucking job, and if it takes the law stepping in to force you to do it, so fucking be it. This slippery slope of picking and choosing who can and cannot be treated based on personal convictions is not to be trod upon. Religious freedom takes a back-fucking-seat to the right to life itself. You say it's legal for a healthcare provider to refuse to treat someone because of their sexual orientation in a non-emergency situation, you establish a precedent for allowing even emergency personnel to refuse to treat people based on religious convictions. After all, what is the difference? Oh sure, Christians, you can say it's because since it's not emergency-level it's not life-threatening, but have you ever heard of the importance of preventative care? If refusal of treatment results in it becoming an emergency, then it's the same fucking thing. And what if it becomes an emergency but care cannot be provided fast enough by that point?

Religious freedom does not usurp the right of an individual to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. If one's religious beliefs cause another to suffer, then the line of religious freedom has been drawn. The same reason we do not allow sharia law to be legal is the same reason Christians do not deserve the "right" to deny anyone anything because of their personal beliefs. You providing care or services to someone of a sexual orientation you do not agree with does not intrude on your beliefs to any fucking extent. You are not being asked to bless their orientation, you are not being asked to condone it, therefore you have no room for argument, and instead all you have is room to whine.

And that is what you Christians are doing: WHINING. "BAWWWW! The world doesn't revolve around me and my silly beliefs! I can't have absolute privileges at the expense of others! I can't be treated better than others because of my beliefs! BAWWWWW!!!" Cry me a fucking river, act professional, do your fucking jobs, and shut the fuck up!

(April 7, 2015 at 2:52 am)Creed of Heresy Wrote: One's personal life and one's professional life have no business interfering with one another.

The fact that there are people who want to bring their personal private beliefs into their public and professional lives demonstrates that they are wholly unprofessional.

The fact that there are now doctors who are doing this bullshit shows they are also completely unethical.  "Do no harm."  If you refuse treatment to someone because of your own biased personal out-of-profession beliefs, you are doing harm by leaving them suffering and/or untreated.  Unprofessional, unethical.

So, yes, it makes sense to make it illegal for a healthcare provider to say "no" to treating someone because of their sexual orientation.  You are a medical professional, not a fucking judge of character; shut the fuck up and do your fucking job, and if it takes the law stepping in to force you to do it, so fucking be it.

It only makes sense to make it illegal if gays are not being served.  Then you have a societal problem that needs to be addressed.  However there is no evidence this is the case. People will always have their hangups or phobias or whatever so let those thing works themselves out naturally instead of trying to force this issue just to keep people from being butthurt.  Doctors have been refusing to see some patients ever since there have been doctors so this is not some new phenomena.  Some doctors refuse to see medicare or tricare patients...should we make that illegal?

If people like Esquilax would just stop getting butthurt....if they would just stop trying to control everyone elses behavior.....problems like this wold vanish like a fart in the wind.

(April 7, 2015 at 3:03 am)Heywood Wrote: Some doctors refuse to see medicare or tricare patients...should we make that illegal?

Mm. kinda sounds like it from where I'm sitting, yes. On account of them being, y'know, doctors.

lmaooo I just dont get you Caucasians your smart people are atheist and your other people still believe jesus is a white guy that is hiding in texas.

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them arabics gata go back to were thw came from

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(April 7, 2015 at 3:22 am)Iroscato Wrote:

(April 7, 2015 at 3:03 am)Heywood Wrote: Some doctors refuse to see medicare or tricare patients...should we make that illegal?

Mm. kinda sounds like it from where I'm sitting, yes. On account of them being, y'know, doctors.

Yes

(April 7, 2015 at 3:03 am)Heywood Wrote: Doctors have been refusing to see some patients ever since there have been doctors so this is not some new phenomena.  Some doctors refuse to see medicare or tricare patients...should we make that illegal?

If people like Esquilax would just stop getting butthurt....if they would just stop trying to control everyone elses behavior.....problems like this wold vanish like a fart in the wind.

Yes, we should.  If you have medicare or tricare, you have insurance, you are covered, your money is the same as any other, and if you can't get any doctors to see you because of your form of coverage, your health problems can get worse and worse, to the point of becoming life threatening.  There's more than a few horror stories about veterans under Tricare who've died trying to find medical assistance because doctors kept refusing to see them.  This isn't a matter of people being butthurt and controlling behavior; this is a matter of people needing to get medical assistance being denied because of who or what they are.  If this was a discussion about whether or not it should be illegal for a doctor to refuse to treat someone because they're black or a female...it wouldn't even be a discussion!  We'd all be like "yeah that shouldn't be allowed."  Why?  Because the fucking civil liberties act!  This is the same fucking thing!

This isn't a matter of hurting someone's feelings, this is a matter of protecting people from discrimination.  If you don't see what the difference is, I will be glad to go into grand detail explaining what the difference is.

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(April 7, 2015 at 3:39 am)You_remember Wrote: lmaooo I just dont get you Caucasians your smart people are atheist and your other people still believe jesus is a white guy that is hiding in texas.

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Man, I'm white and even I don't understand white people.  To anyone who isn't white, we've gotta seem like the most dysfunctional whackjobs on the planet.

(April 7, 2015 at 4:32 am)Creed of Heresy Wrote:

(April 7, 2015 at 3:03 am)Heywood Wrote: Doctors have been refusing to see some patients ever since there have been doctors so this is not some new phenomena.  Some doctors refuse to see medicare or tricare patients...should we make that illegal?

If people like Esquilax would just stop getting butthurt....if they would just stop trying to control everyone elses behavior.....problems like this wold vanish like a fart in the wind.

Yes, we should.  If you have medicare or tricare, you have insurance, you are covered, your money is the same as any other, and if you can't get any doctors to see you because of your form of coverage, your health problems can get worse and worse, to the point of becoming life threatening.  There's more than a few horror stories about veterans under Tricare who've died trying to find medical assistance because doctors kept refusing to see them.  This isn't a matter of people being butthurt and controlling behavior; this is a matter of people needing to get medical assistance being denied because of who or what they are.  If this was a discussion about whether or not it should be illegal for a doctor to refuse to treat someone because they're black or a female...it wouldn't even be a discussion!  We'd all be like "yeah that shouldn't be allowed."  Why?  Because the fucking civil liberties act!  This is the same fucking thing!

This isn't a matter of hurting someone's feelings, this is a matter of protecting people from discrimination.  If you don't see what the difference is, I will be glad to go into grand detail explaining what the difference is.

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(April 7, 2015 at 3:39 am)You_remember Wrote: lmaooo I just dont get you Caucasians your smart people are atheist and your other people still believe jesus is a white guy that is hiding in texas.

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Man, I'm white and even I don't understand white people.  To anyone who isn't white, we've gotta seem like the most dysfunctional whackjobs on the planet.

The reason you have a hard problem getting care under Tricare is because the re-reimbursement rates are so low and the government caps the amount of you can bill above that rate. 

So what happens.  Instead of providers seeing you and balance billing.....meaning they charge you the difference between what tricare pays and what they bill......they simply refuse to see you at all.  The result....if you have Tricare (a government program) for some specialities you would be better off not having any coverage at all.   Cause if didn't have coverage, the doctor would see you if he or she thought there was a reasonable chance you would pay them.  Having tricare, the doctor  knows you the most they can collect by law isn't enough for them to bother even seeing you.

Government laws and regulations are full of unintended consequences.  Let people be free and you will find that most act optimally.  It is very rare that you find yourself in a situation where the crowd behaves so wrongly that government intervention is warranted.  However the progressotards.....like Esquilax....will invent problems to justify controlling you.  Because in the end that is their goal...They don't give a rats ass about you....they only care about controlling you.

Insuring you have self determination is the only check against people like him.