(April 12, 2015 at 7:55 pm)abaris Wrote:

(April 12, 2015 at 5:03 pm)Dystopia Wrote: @Simon I'm sorry but some of those States (if not all) actually declared themselves literally atheist states - Russia did it at least. That doesn't change anything, it just shows an hostility towards religious beliefs

But none of them, with the exemption of North Korea and possibly Pol Pot's regime, actually forbid excercising religion. They only made it more difficult by regulating the hell out of them. There was no actual persecution simply for being religious.

This becomes even harder after noticing that everyone can lie about their beliefs and simply pray at home without going to church so you can't know who's religious

'Thi is riht as rain. Both atheism and thism are ideas in the minds of humans. Take the most pristinee idea ever concocted in the human mnd and somebody, somehere will find a way to abuse it. That\'s not to say we humans are innately bd, bt the bad guys ae out there and they will use whatever tool, aheism or religion, they think suits their needs.

(April 12, 2015 at 10:54 am)Spooky Wrote: A bad person (whatever definition of which you may use) is a bad person regardless of what creed/ideology they use on the surface.

(April 13, 2015 at 9:52 am)Rhondazvous Wrote: 'Thi is riht as rain. Both atheism and thism are ideas in the minds of humans. Take the most pristinee idea ever concocted in the human mnd and somebody, somehere will find a way to abuse it. That\'s not to say we humans are innately bd, bt the bad guys ae out there and they will use whatever tool, aheism or religion, they think suits their needs.  

(April 12, 2015 at 10:54 am)Spooky Wrote: A bad person (whatever definition of which you may use) is a bad person regardless of what creed/ideology they use on the surface.

If you want to do kill count theists have far more kills than atheists will ever have. Kinda funny considering theists think atheism is a type of dogma when its the extreme lack of it. 
I follow create my own morality and my own values into being a decent person. 

(April 12, 2015 at 10:19 am)Dystopia Wrote: [...]
Conclusion - Believing in god is as hazardous to oneself as a lack of thereof, it's what we do after that affects our actions. Am I wrong? 

You are wrong. Kind of.

Belief in god is more hazardous than lack thereof. Why? Because there are great many mutually exclusive versions of belief. There is only one lack of belief. Sure - people would be fighting over all sorts of things, but if we all agreed that we don't believe in any gods - that's one discussion over and one major reason for war gone.

Alternatively - we could all agree on existence of just one version of god - but which one? Since no religion has any evidence for their particular interpretation being correct and none of the religious leaders are willing to give up power over their "flocks", believers will always be killing each other (as they always have), even if we all agreed, that there is a god. 

No religion - no holy war. Sure, there would be other kinds of war, just as there are now. But one kind less would be an improvement - however small (and in my opinion it would be a fairly substantial one).

(April 13, 2015 at 10:37 am)Homeless Nutter Wrote: No religion - no holy war. Sure, there would be other kinds of war, just as there are now. But one kind less would be an improvement - however small (and in my opinion it would be a fairly substantial one).

The void would be instantly filled with other ideologies to make people feel exclusive. To say there would be no holy wars when religions were gone is putting a hell of unjustified credit into humanity. Holy would just take on a different meaning.

(April 13, 2015 at 11:21 am)abaris Wrote:

(April 13, 2015 at 10:37 am)Homeless Nutter Wrote: No religion - no holy war. Sure, there would be other kinds of war, just as there are now. But one kind less would be an improvement - however small (and in my opinion it would be a fairly substantial one).

The void would be instantly filled with other ideologies to make people feel exclusive. To say there would be no holy wars when religions were gone is putting a hell of unjustified credit into humanity. Holy would just take on a different meaning.

Yeah because i think yeah... um.. south park went over that already if more people lets say the majority were to be atheist and into science.
And let's say they had the mindset of theists still they would be very dangerous people especially if they gotten their hands on modern day weapons. 
Then it coins the whole term science damn you. 

...What.

dyresand

Quote:Yeah because i think yeah... um.. south park went over that already if more people lets say the majority were to be atheist and into science.
And let's say they had the mindset of theists still they would be very dangerous people especially if they gotten their hands on modern day weapons.
Then it coins the whole term science damn you.

It's a cartoon. Just because Parker and Stone implied that's what would happen - doesn't make it a fact...

---

(April 13, 2015 at 11:21 am)abaris Wrote: The void would be instantly filled with other ideologies to make people feel exclusive. To say there would be no holy wars when religions were gone is putting a hell of unjustified credit into humanity. Holy would just take on a different meaning.

And you know that - how, exactly? Are you saying that holy wars prevent other kinds of  conflicts from happening? Well - they don't. There are plenty of non-holy wars around, on top of religious ones. I didn't say, that there would be no wars - just that there might be slightly fewer with such a major issues, as afterlife and god's plan - gone.

Would we fight over existence of elves as hard as we fight for everlasting life? I hardly doubt it. And sure - many wars are fought under "false flag" of religion, whereas they're about other things - I don't see how taking away that pretense would change much.

Saying that "The void would be instantly filled" is expressing a hell of pessimism - cynicism in fact - regarding the ability of humans to live in peace.

The deities in both the Bible and the Quran command their followers to kill infidels and disobedient believers as well.  If someone were t o codify atheism into a book, that person would most likely have the same political agenda as Christians and Muslims for doing so and we would find the same kind of stuff. Thank the god of good sense no one has done that.

(April 13, 2015 at 10:10 am)dyresand Wrote:

(April 13, 2015 at 9:52 am)Rhondazvous Wrote: 'Thi is riht as rain. Both atheism and thism are ideas in the minds of humans. Take the most pristinee idea ever concocted in the human mnd and somebody, somehere will find a way to abuse it. That\'s not to say we humans are innately bd, bt the bad guys ae out there and they will use whatever tool, aheism or religion, they think suits their needs.  

If you want to do kill count theists have far more kills than atheists will ever have. Kinda funny considering theists think atheism is a type of dogma when its the extreme lack of it. 
I follow create my own morality and my own values into being a decent person. 

(April 13, 2015 at 10:10 am)dyresand Wrote:

(April 13, 2015 at 9:52 am)Rhondazvous Wrote: 'Thi is riht as rain. Both atheism and thism are ideas in the minds of humans. Take the most pristinee idea ever concocted in the human mnd and somebody, somehere will find a way to abuse it. That\'s not to say we humans are innately bd, bt the bad guys ae out there and they will use whatever tool, aheism or religion, they think suits their needs.  

If you want to do kill count theists have far more kills than atheists will ever have. Kinda funny considering theists think atheism is a type of dogma when its the extreme lack of it. 
I follow create my own morality and my own values into being a decent person. 

Atheists or those under the orders of atheists have killed more than 100 million people than the theists.