Wow, some of the stuff in thread...just...I don't know...

I'm starting to truly believe that we are completely doomed as a species.

It's just lucky secular laws are stronger than God. Without them, I have no doubts certain people would be organising lynch mobs. I really can't believe what we've seen today. I can only hope it's a wind up, or they are undercover atheists or something.

(April 13, 2015 at 1:09 pm)robvalue Wrote: I can't believe what I'm hearing today. I don't think I could do a better job of making religion look repulsive if I made a sock account and pretended to be a theist. I applaud the efforts on our behalf for the benefit of lurkers reading the forum.

I told my wife about some of the ridiculous arguments being put forward to justify this blatant bigotry, and she made a good point. Even if every single person woke up gay tomorrow, it wouldn't make any difference. People would carry on having children through sperm donation and surrogates. Again, it doesn't even make any sense. It's another ludicrous rationalization to cover simple bigotry.

It's called homophobia for a reason. Clearly these people are scared of gays, want to see them ostracized and will make up any nonsense to convince themselves it's not just pure fear.

Can't run from your own shadow though.

Sperm donation and surrogates would just be a hack solution to the problems that would arise.  Not enough gays would voluntarily reproduce that way.  If everyone turned gay, it would be the end of humanity unless the state simply made it an objective to farm enough offspring for humanity to continue.

Ask your wife if sperm donation or artificial fertility add value to gays....because that seems to be her position.

All those infertile couples going around acting like they are equal to us breeders and the old married couples wtf, are they thinking that they are the same as us young folk that can still make babies.
Lets deny them cake.

(April 13, 2015 at 2:17 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: All those infertile couples going around acting like they are equal to us breeders and the old married couples wtf, are they thinking that they are the same as us young folk that can still make babies.
Lets deny them cake.

We are talking about intrinsic value.  There is no reason to think that all orientations or conditions have the same intrinsic value.....unless you believe in God and think he designed the world that way.  

Now you can choose to treat these orientations and conditions as having the same value and that is your choice.  I only have a problem when you try to force your choice on others.

One of the reasons I've decided never to have kids is because there's too many people already, certainly not too few. So you can stone me along with the gays.

Gays can still have children of course, but I guess that's a mystery to some people.

(April 13, 2015 at 2:49 pm)Heywood Wrote:

(April 13, 2015 at 2:17 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: All those infertile couples going around acting like they are equal to us breeders and the old married couples wtf, are they thinking that they are the same as us young folk that can still make babies.
Lets deny them cake.

We are talking about intrinsic value.  There is no reason to think that all orientations or conditions have the same intrinsic value.....unless you believe in God and think he designed the world that way.  

Now you can choose to treat these orientations and conditions as having the same value and that is your choice.  I only have a problem when you try to force your choice on others.

No, you're talking about protected bigotry while we're talking about equality under the law.

Besides, your concept of 'intrinsic value' comes from your narrow, bigoted, christer point of view not a reasonable position.

(April 13, 2015 at 2:06 pm)Heywood Wrote: Sperm donation and surrogates would just be a hack solution to the problems that would arise.  Not enough gays would voluntarily reproduce that way.  If everyone turned gay, it would be the end of humanity unless the state simply made it an objective to farm enough offspring for humanity to continue.

You could make the same argument if everyone were women, or men, you loon. That doesn't make being a woman or a man less valuable than any specific alternative. It just means that if you reach for unrealistic extremes, bad things can happen.

Ten thousand posts, bitches.

Sweet! Congrats

(April 13, 2015 at 2:06 pm)Heywood Wrote: Sperm donation and surrogates would just be a hack solution to the problems that would arise.  

With 7 billion people and rapidly growing, the "problem" would be quite welcome. If we could come down to only 3.5 billion in the next generation or two, the result of only half our numbers reproducing, the world would be so much better off. Fretting over "not enough children in the world" is worrying about a "problem" that would actually be a great solution to a very real and dire problem we're faced with. 

Plus, you forget that restricting yourself to only two children is actually only a recent trend. Married couples would normally have 5-6 kids each if not more until this past century. J.S. Bach had some 21 children with only one wife at a time (he was a widower when he remarried; I think his first wife died of exhaustion). Even with the highly unlikely scenario that we could modify half the population to be gay, the remaining het couples could make up the difference without any trouble. 

Quote:Not enough gays would voluntarily reproduce that way.  

Actually, quite a few do right now. More will as we allow gay marriage. Others adopt for their heterosexual counterparts.