(April 13, 2015 at 4:12 pm)Mezmo! Wrote: Gay advocates are very quick to label people bigots, homophobes and repressed homosexuals when others have a difference of opinions about gender identity. Those kinds of ad hominem attacks reveal the poverty of their position.

Considering that the position we're responding to has never had a single argument that is, you know, true, there isn't a lot of responding to actually be done. Try starting off with something factually accurate, and maybe you'll get a response that has more content than the simple observation that all of this is thin justification for presupposed bigotry based on religion.

Quote:The secular humanists have no response to the homosexuality going contrary to evolutionary advantage because that’s their argument of convenience when it comes to how they can be good without God. When it applies to sex they set aside the evolutionary justifications for human morality because it would be too inconvenient to for them.

Chad, if you don't understand evolution, then you can just admit that, you don't need to pretend that you do. We can see right through that.

The "evolutionary advantage" you speak of is little more than an invention of your misunderstanding of the process; in truth, evolution does not continually produce advantageous traits, nor are the most optimal traits necessarily the ones that get preserved in the gene pool, so this idea that if we were to follow an evolutionary model we'd have a problem with gays is completely fucked coming and going; evolution functions in such a way that, even if gays were a detriment, they would still be entirely consistent with our stance on them.

Second of all, evolution works upon populations, not upon individuals, and the fact that we are the dominant species on our planet, with the highest level of attained technology and a stable population indicates that the presence of homosexuality for the entirety of our species' evolution has not produced a statistically significant disadvantage, making it a neutral trait and not a negative one. Natural selection only selects out lethal traits, so given that homosexuality isn't lethal, it isn't something we have to deal with.

Lastly, evolution is not the sole dictator of our morality, even if it is where the concept originates. So... hey.

My two cents on the evolution issue:
- traditionally gay men have married and sired children, because society expected that
- we're assuming that gayness is genetic when research says it is probably much more complicated

I still have no idea what refusing service to gays is supposed to accomplish, whatever your opinion of them. I can only think it gives bigots some twisted sense of satisfaction from causing them as much trouble as the law allows them to. What such bigots would do were the law not holding them back is what worries me more.

Fuck Christian morality and charity I suppose. Just be a complete dick as much as you can get away with. Jesus would be proud, if he could stop killing fig trees for 5 seconds.

I have no idea why gays want to give their money to people who don't seem to like them. 

(April 13, 2015 at 6:09 pm)robvalue Wrote: I still have no idea what refusing service to gays is supposed to accomplish, whatever your opinion of them. I can only think it gives bigots some twisted sense of satisfaction from causing them as much trouble as the law allows them to. What such bigots would do were the law not holding them back is what worries me more.

Fuck Christian morality and charity I suppose. Just be a complete dick as much as you can get away with. Jesus would be proud, if he could stop killing fig trees for 5 seconds.

I think it's got something to do with them not wanting to be somehow complicit in the 'sin'. Like aiding and abetting.

(April 13, 2015 at 6:16 pm)alpha male Wrote: I have no idea why gays want to give their money to people who don't seem to like them. 

Exactly.

as I've said before, it's absolutely no skin off my back. Don't want to serve me? That's fine these other girls can have my money instead. 

You're losing custom and money. I'm losing nothing.

(April 13, 2015 at 6:16 pm)alpha male Wrote: I have no idea why gays want to give their money to people who don't seem to like them. 

I think the point is that whether a store owner, doctor, or whoever approves of a person's character is irrelevant to whether or not they can do their job for that person, as is the customer's approval or disapproval of the character of the employee. Discrimination, as history shows, is a slippery slope; the people impacted by it have everything to lose for staying silent.

(April 13, 2015 at 4:12 pm)Mezmo! Wrote: Gay advocates are very quick to label people bigots, homophobes and repressed homosexuals when others have a difference of opinions about gender identity. Those kinds of ad hominem attacks reveal the poverty of their position.

That's because these people are bigoted idiots, who don't even bother to look up gender identity and what science has to say about it. And excuse if someone being obsessed with talking about gay sex might appear to be a little bit envious. I certainly don't spend my time obsessing about anyone's sexual preferences. Talking about gay being a choice ads another layer to the stupidity as well as the hypocrisy since it implies these people perceive it as such. For me it isn't a choice for the simple reason that, try as I might, I wouldn't get it up with another man, if you get my drift.

So what if those places who don't want to serve homosexuals, and were 'forced' to, had a different door, dining room, drinking fountain..for their homosexual customers...you see where I'm going with this right? Discrimination is discrimination. 

I am not a 'gay rights' advocate, I'm an equal rights advocate. For everyone. 

(April 14, 2015 at 12:50 am)Kitty Galore Wrote: So what if those places who don't want to serve homosexuals, and were 'forced' to, had a different door, dining room, drinking fountain..for their homosexual customers...you see where I'm going with this right? Discrimination is discrimination. 

I am not a 'gay rights' advocate, I'm an equal rights advocate. For everyone. 

I know what you mean. I find terms like "feminist" strange as well. I want everything fair for everyone as much as possible. I don't feel I need to specify very particular areas in which I mean this. I'm automatically a supporter of anything that is trying to promote equality and remove discrimination. I find it really hard to get into the mindset of someone who doesn't want equality for all.

I've found it hilarious as well as appalling to hear our resident homophobes trying to rationalize their fear of people who do different things with their genitals. They obviously don't know what homosexuality is, what causes it, what it means to be homosexual, or the difference between being homosexual and having sex with someone of the same gender. They've obviously been "educated" on the matter by religious propaganda, and refuse to actually go back and study the reality. I wonder if one day they will actually do some research on topics they know nothing about before parading their ignorance and thinly veiled hatred for those different from themselves. It feels just like "debating" evolution with someone who doesn't understand it at all. They need to give serious thought as to why they are so afraid of and hateful towards these people.

I'm glad that everyone came down so hard on these recent incidents, because if you allow one ignorant moron to go ahead with no regulation then it won't be long before every closet homophobe pulls out the sheets and lighter fluid.