Yeah, probably. Well, then the psychology is clear. Came here convinced that atheists are stoopid, left without having learned a thing.

Hmm, all I heard was "I'm a Christian and I worship a pencil sharpener". I'm not interested in information which may change my opinion on that.

Irony dealt out and wasted.

Funny that I was actually most likely right as well

(April 15, 2015 at 4:53 am)Alex K Wrote: Oh cool, how is the fight against the antidisestablishmentarianists progressing?

Terribly. Whilst it would appear that most people in England & Wales do not espouse any sort of religion or belief in a deity (& are thus de facto atheists), this I think is more down to apathy rather than an upbringing in religion and subsequent de-conversion.

Also, a lot of people here don't know shit about political institutions and structures, and thus are equally apathetic to an established church.

Recently however I've been hearing arguments that support an established church in that it acts as a buffer against the more extremist forms of religion that are prevalent in, say, the US and elsewhere. I'm not necessarily convinced by that but I haven't seen the evidence yet so I can't make a decision either way.

(April 15, 2015 at 7:26 am)Pandæmonium Wrote:

(April 15, 2015 at 4:53 am)Alex K Wrote: Oh cool, how is the fight against the antidisestablishmentarianists progressing?

Terribly. Whilst it would appear that most people in England & Wales do not espouse any sort of religion or belief in a deity (& are thus de facto atheists), this I think is more down to apathy rather than an upbringing in religion and subsequent de-conversion.

Also, a lot of people here don't know shit about political institutions and structures, and thus are equally apathetic to an established church.

Recently however I've been hearing arguments that support an established church in that it acts as a buffer against the more extremist forms of religion that are prevalent in, say, the US and elsewhere. I'm not necessarily convinced by that but I haven't seen the evidence yet so I can't make a decision either way.

I think it somewhat works like that in Germania. Here, everyone is so used to church = two established state-sanctioned institutions (EKD, roman catholic), that anything outside of this officially sanctioned system is automatically perceived as suspicious and possibly dangerous. That's because anyone who would bother to join a christian denomination outside the standard two must really be taking it too seriously, and probably also be craaazy.

That's interesting. My friend made that observation, that our dribbly religion bungs up the hole so that more insane stuff doesn't fill it.

Not sure what to say about that.

(April 15, 2015 at 7:29 am)Alex K Wrote:

(April 15, 2015 at 7:26 am)Pandæmonium Wrote: Terribly. Whilst it would appear that most people in England & Wales do not espouse any sort of religion or belief in a deity (& are thus de facto atheists), this I think is more down to apathy rather than an upbringing in religion and subsequent de-conversion.

Also, a lot of people here don't know shit about political institutions and structures, and thus are equally apathetic to an established church.

Recently however I've been hearing arguments that support an established church in that it acts as a buffer against the more extremist forms of religion that are prevalent in, say, the US and elsewhere. I'm not necessarily convinced by that but I haven't seen the evidence yet so I can't make a decision either way.

I think it somewhat works like that in Germania. Here, everyone is so used to church = two established state-sanctioned institutions (EKD, roman catholic), that anything outside of this officially sanctioned system is automatically perceived as suspicious and possibly dangerous. That's because anyone who would bother to join a christian denomination outside the standard two must really be taking it too seriously, and probably also be craaazy.

lol, yeah I get that logic. OVerall it's inoffensive to me except for the Lord Spiritual and the constant references to religion and faith in almost every public occasion.

I can handle it though if it means the more mental members of the god squad don't start shitting on everything.

What's most offensive about them to me (in GER) is that
1. they get privileges that allow them to override worker's rights for their employees
2. they have the privilege to run religious instruction in state schools and act as if it were their divine right, crosses on the wall
3. The public thinks that we are so terribly indebted to them because they run kindergartens and charities out of their love for humanity. In reality, they get almost all of the money for that from taxes, use it to discriminate and proselytize, and then claim the moral high ground (basically guilt-tripping the population into remaining members). That's just sickening. It is somewhat compensated by the fact that their facilities (especially for care of the elderly) tend to be better than the secular ones. Of course that's not something that would be hard to change.

(April 15, 2015 at 7:29 am)Alex K Wrote: I think it somewhat works like that in Germania. Here, everyone is so used to church = two established state-sanctioned institutions (EKD, roman catholic), that anything outside of this officially sanctioned system is automatically perceived as suspicious and possibly dangerous.

In Poland - when I was growing up, at least - if you were not (at least officially) Roman Catholic, you might as well have been a Satan-worshiping junkie pedophile from Mars... People there are not big on tolerance. The Pope being a Pole at the time had a lot to do with it.

In UK, it seems that having an established national church takes away all the romanticism from religion - hence the apathy. That might change soon, though, with the vocal - and growing - Muslim minority feeding xenophobia and making people want to defend their faith against "invaders".

My biggest gripe is darn exemptions.

However there is a flip side as one can argue legally for all sorts of exemptions using the exact same reasoning. A Sikh in the UK doesn't have to wear a hard hat as part of his PPE on a building site as part of an exemption, yet the employer assumes liability if a Sikh employee wearing a turban has a head injury as part of his work. Ludicrous.

Yet one can still use this precedent for all sorts of legal shenanigans. Colander's as PPE for FSM believers for example, such as the famous case of the Austrian chap who was allowed to wear one on his driving license. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14135523

Sorry OP, we've derailed your thread. Oh well. ^_^