(April 21, 2015 at 12:33 pm)Dystopia Wrote: Judaism is a religion. Jewish ancestry is a whole different issue.

As for Islam - Curiously only 20-30% of Muslims are arab, so I wonder why the profiling is directed towards arabs? I mean, how many would picture a Muslim and imagine an asian or a black person?

The French should, the Muslim who recently took hostages at the Jewish Deli was black.

(April 21, 2015 at 10:20 am)Vox Populi Wrote: I believe this simply.. I don't care about whatever religion/faith.. whatever.. just don't push it on me nor involve politics that effect anyone. Plain and simple. Sadly, neither of these are in effect...

Muslims and Jews generally don't push their religion since theirs is cultural rather than evangelical. Not to say you won't run into an exception once or twice in your life.  Their basic annoyance is that Jews tend to push Israel, not Judaism, through politics and lawmaking on a national scale. And of course, they own every goddamn thing. Muslims won't try to evangelize you. If you don't believe in Allah, they just kill you.

(April 21, 2015 at 12:33 pm)Dystopia Wrote: As for Islam - Curiously only 20-30% of Muslims are arab, so I wonder why the profiling is directed towards arabs?

Indonesia's the biggest Muslim nation, India second, neither Arab. Abdulmutallah with his dirty underwear that didn't blow up the plane was Nigerian. But it's Joe Bloe in the general public who profiles Arabs. The CIA looks at everyone. Their drone in Yemen went after the white American Anwar al-Awlaki, "the radical imam" of Fort Hood fame.

(April 21, 2015 at 1:00 pm)Cephus Wrote:

(April 21, 2015 at 12:33 pm)Dystopia Wrote: Judaism is a religion. Jewish ancestry is a whole different issue.

As for Islam - Curiously only 20-30% of Muslims are arab, so I wonder why the profiling is directed towards arabs? I mean, how many would picture a Muslim and imagine an asian or a black person?

The French should, the Muslim who recently took hostages at the Jewish Deli was black.

It was a grocery store from what I remember, may have had a deli in it. But there was a Muslim also who helped hide Jews preventing them from getting killed.

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(April 21, 2015 at 1:14 pm)Rhondazvous Wrote:

(April 21, 2015 at 10:20 am)Vox Populi Wrote: I believe this simply.. I don't care about whatever religion/faith.. whatever.. just don't push it on me nor involve politics that effect anyone. Plain and simple. Sadly, neither of these are in effect...

Muslims and Jews generally don't push their religion since theirs is cultural rather than evangelical. Not to say you won't run into an exception once or twice in your life.  Their basic annoyance is that Jews tend to push Israel, not Judaism, through politics and lawmaking on a national scale. And of course, they own every goddamn thing. Muslims won't try to evangelize you. If you don't believe in Allah, they just kill you.

What? Um no. You mistake majorities on either side, and that allows both religions to ignore that it is RELIGION itself. If neither Islam or Hebrew  existed there would be no divisions between them. Both think they are the "chosen people".

No Canaanites, no Hebrews, no Hebrews no word "Jew". I am tired of this crap that religion has nothing to do with it. 

Quote:Israel, not Judaism, through politics and lawmaking on a national scale.

Um no again.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/180440

The Talmud is a Hebrew tradition, again, no Hebrew no Talmud. This is the same crap Christians pull trying to claim to be "secular" and call America a "Christian Nation".

Being more westernized and allowing religious pluralism does not negate them from attempting to set up religious pecking orders. They do allow religious pluralism like America, but they still have the same mentality as Christians do in America, all non Jews are more like tokens, pets or guests. 

Quote:What? Um no. You mistake majorities on either side, and that allows both religions to ignore that it is RELIGION itself. If neither Islam or Hebrew existed there would be no divisions between them. Both think they are the "chosen people".

No Canaanites, no Hebrews, no Hebrews no word "Jew". I am tired of this crap that religion has nothing to do with it.

So what? The hypothetical scenario of "what if this didn't exist?" is irrelevant to the present and future and no one should care about it. If it wasn't for religion my country wouldn't exist. Instead of complaining about the "ifs" try to see the solutions we can possibly apply.

The whole conversation of a mythical society that doesn't exist is worthless because we don't live in on and for someone who seems to value evidence you are relying on fantasy to make a point.

(April 21, 2015 at 5:14 pm)Dystopia Wrote:

Quote:What? Um no. You mistake majorities on either side, and that allows both religions to ignore that it is RELIGION itself. If neither Islam or Hebrew  existed there would be no divisions between them. Both think they are the "chosen people".

No Canaanites, no Hebrews, no Hebrews no word "Jew". I am tired of this crap that religion has nothing to do with it.

So what? The hypothetical scenario of "what if this didn't exist?" is irrelevant to the present and future and no one should care about it. If it wasn't for religion my country wouldn't exist. Instead of complaining about the "ifs" try to see the solutions we can possibly apply.

The whole conversation of a mythical society that doesn't exist is worthless because we don't live in on and for someone who seems to value evidence you are relying on fantasy to make a point.

NO kidding you know how many times I get from all religions "if it weren't for". 

So, if a religion had never been concocted by humans another one would have been. Humans gap fill and that is why religions get started, that is not an excuse to cling to old books or traditions. If it were not for the Egyptians the pyramids wouldn't have been built so why is it humans don't believe in Horus or Isis or Osiris?

If it were not for Christianity America wouldn't exist, but no Native Americans would have been slaughtered and there would have been no slavery either.

We also no longer believe in Apollo The Rome went from Polytheism to Christianity, so if it were not for polytheism Catholics wouldn't exist, so why did Italy scrap polytheism?

The Hebrews came from the Canaanites, so if it were not for the Canaanites Hebrews would not exist.

No one should be talking about getting rid of any population in the world, but that still is not an excuse to cling to a tradition. That was then, this is now. It is ok to remember history to learn from it, but it is not ok to cling to old myths. If our species never questioned social norms our species never would have left the caves.

Arabs invented Algebra but that doesn't compel me to move to Iraq and join Isis.

So? That doesn't change anything. Even if you could prove that religion is a determinant factor it's still not enough to conclude it's all about religion when there's zionism, nationalism and hatred going on (and maybe a little of Israeli imperialism).

I agree that we should learn from history. I would never erase the Christian history in my country or burn churches to get rid of religion.

Notice you mentioned that another religion would have been created by humans - Precisely why I think religion is somehow within the realm of natural human behaviour. A study a while ago said that technically complete atheists towards all the supernatural don't exist because we all have delusions. No one is safe, not even atheists - Atheists are rational towards god beliefs. That's just one point. I am probably deluded in some way towards other things.

(April 21, 2015 at 5:39 pm)Dystopia Wrote: So? That doesn't change anything. Even if you could prove that religion is a determinant factor it's still not enough to conclude it's all about religion when there's zionism, nationalism and hatred going on (and maybe a little of Israeli imperialism).

I agree that we should learn from history. I would never erase the Christian history in my country or burn churches to get rid of religion.

Notice you mentioned that another religion would have been created by humans - Precisely why I think religion is somehow within the realm of natural human behaviour. A study a while ago said that technically complete atheists towards all the supernatural don't exist because we all have delusions. No one is safe, not even atheists - Atheists are rational towards god beliefs. That's just one point. I am probably deluded in some way towards other things.

Stop dodging because I am being quite fair. You don't seem to understand that ALL religions do this. They want their religious states, the only difference with western societies is that they are forced to share government, but even in the west people STILL like their pecking orders. 

Religion is the cause, just like you accept that right wingers in America say "Christian Nation".

The difference between the east and the west is that the west has had 200 plus years of secular law. But the underpinnings of religious tribalism have not gone way. Christians don't get a pass on that, Muslims don't get a pass on that, but neither do Jews. 

The God/s of all three of those books are unmovable powers and tap their respective populations on the shoulder and say "I love you more than anyone else, yo my peeps" and at best says the non believers of each, "I will let you live here, but remember my people get top billing". But even in the OT as in the Bible and Koran, there are far too many depictions of dissenters being punished either directly by this God or where he sanctions his "peeps" punishing the other tribes.

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Quote:Quote: Dystopia
Notice you mentioned that another religion would have been created by humans - Precisely why I think religion is somehow within the realm of natural human behaviour. 

It is natural to make bad guesses. If you accept you can get things wrong in your daily life outside religion, you can accept those mistakes outside religion as natural too. Why should religion be scrutiny free?

Religion is natural in the sense we gap fill, that does not mean because those warm fuzzies lead us to form groups mean the group got it right.

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(April 21, 2015 at 5:39 pm)Dystopia Wrote: I agree that we should learn from history. I would never erase the Christian history in my country or burn churches to get rid of religion.

UGGGG no one is talking about using force of government here. No one is talking about erasing history. No one is talking about burning anyone's holy place down. I am talking about the intellectual maturity to consider you don't need that religion and try to understand why evolution produces gap filling which leads to religion.

Don't act like the Church with Galileo here. The earth revolves around the sun, and humans gap fill.

When did atheism become synonymous with insulting?

(April 21, 2015 at 6:38 pm)Deidre32 Wrote: When did atheism become synonymous with insulting?

What? 

Sorry, but that is the argument used when someone wants to shut down a conversation. I bet you don't like Bill Maher either.

When you form a group on old books with fantastic claims and go to war over them and cause the entire planet to have to divert resources to it; I think that blasphemy verbally by people who wish that would stop is appropriate to those who are participating in that conflict show that only care about their own tribes. 

Since when did atheism become synonymous with walking on eggshells? Religious people kill over their beliefs, I think being killed because you offended someone with no intent of killing them, is far worse than getting offended.