(April 26, 2015 at 8:31 pm)KUSA Wrote:

(April 26, 2015 at 8:14 pm)Dystopia Wrote: I watched the video.

The first problem I would point out is that it proposes a kind of "libertarian" view that people are fully in control of their destiny and if they fail then they didn't work hard enough.

Where's the research? Where's the evidence? What point are you exactly trying to make here?

Something like "Get out of the ghetto" is easier said than done. You see, when you grow up near people who deal drugs, spend your life seeing people dealing drugs, you will most likely end up dealing drugs as well. That's just nurturing. It's not as simple as "get out of the hole" otherwise there would be no poor people anywhere, don't you think?

And no, I don't really believe that running away from a cop legally allows murder regardless of the person's race.

It's also funny that he mentions slavery doesn't exist but there's lots of trafficking, maybe even more than 100 years ago (but that's a whole new topic).

The only thing in life that we control are our choices. The outcome may not always go the way you want but the wiser the choice the greater the odds of a successful outcome there is.

Regardless of the shithole you live in you should always make good choices. If everyone did that the shitholes would go away given time.

Look you can't have it both ways. Either human behavior is contingent on the universe or not. 

(April 26, 2015 at 8:44 pm)Pizza Wrote: Look you can't have it both ways. Either human behavior is contingent on the universe or not. 

Says who? Who says it's not a combination of circumstance and personal reasoning?

Mostly circumstance... The fact most people in the world believe in god shows this

(April 26, 2015 at 8:53 pm)Napoléon Wrote:

(April 26, 2015 at 8:44 pm)Pizza Wrote: Look you can't have it both ways. Either human behavior is contingent on the universe or not. 

Says who? Who says it's not a combination of circumstance and personal reasoning?

Is personal reasoning contingent on the universe existing or not? Can you have "personal reasoning" without a body?

Okay, don't know whether I just had a complete retard moment but I think I just misunderstood your post Pizza.

It's basically the "is there free will?" and thus "can people really choose?"

Honestly as you may have noticed I just arrived home and I'm really tired so I'm not going to type a long rant on what I think about the subject while I'm sleepy - I'll do it tomorrow (it's a promise!).

(April 26, 2015 at 9:10 pm)Dystopia Wrote: It's basically the "is there free will?" and thus "can people really choose?"

Honestly as you may have noticed I just arrived home and I'm really tired so I'm not going to type a long rant on what I think about the subject while I'm sleepy - I'll do it tomorrow (it's a promise!).

That's fair enough, don't feel under any obligation or anything.

As to the above question. 

I think people can choose, and communities as a whole get to choose (to some extent), how they're perceived by their own behaviours. There's shit going down in Baltimore right now isn't there? The gangs of thugs attacking innocent people have a choice about what they're doing. People justifying other people being pure scum by saying "they're born into the ghetto" or "the police system is corrupt" or "black people are being oppressed" is wrong IMO. It may well be true that they are this, they are that, but it isn't an excuse. Essentially the point of the first video posted. 

My neighborhood is 95% black (I'm white). But for Pete's sake, people just litter constantly. You cannot blame the Man for you living in a ghetto when you just throw Cheetos bags, cigarillo wrappers, soda pop bottles and beer cans on the ground. How much responsibility does it take to throw it in the garbage can that is literally 10-feet away?

I agree with the guy 100% - especially about the glorifying ignorance part.

I think there is a psychological problem with victim mentality too. If you refuse to take personal responsibility and put it all on "The Man", you are planting a seed in your own mind that you are powerless. If you believe you are powerless than you are never going to do what it takes to pull yourself out of a bad situation.

I have nothing but sympathy for the injustices the black community faces but as a community, they don't do much to help their situation. Many individuals do and then they get shunned as sell-outs.

Let's start with the obvious:

There's many definitions of racism we can find - Some are short and narrow, others encompass a large number of scenarios - I'm going to define racism as prejudice + social power - The reason why I'm using this definition is because it's (and has been) the most relevant form of racism. If one group holds little social power they could even form the most supremacist group that it would have almost no effect on society. In this case it's obvious that blacks have less social power and that's visible by looking at important positions in society like CEO's, media, politicians,etc. Prejudice + power is relevant because it allows one group to fuck the other, even when it's not done explicitly. This is why you hear the "blacks can't be racist" phrase - It's not because blacks can't hold prejudice, but even if they did they have no power to implement measures to fuck the other group and no one will care.

I believe that racism as supremacy of one group (like the KKK or the Aryan Brotherhood) has little relevance and few people support it. In most countries where most people are white you can always find a group of nuts, but it's usually small and labelled as extremist (like the BNP in Britain). However, that is not synonym with "racism is over". You see, the smartest form of racism is not explicit violence but what sociologists label "institutionalized racism", and that's an issue that still exists in modern society. When we're talking about this kind of racism it's about one group holding much more power than the other and either directly or indirectly contributing to marginalization. IT happens all the time and it works trough our prejudices, subconscious stereotypes, etc. Since I'm not a pro I advise you to google the definition because specialists know better than me

The issue with the video is that it makes it look easier as if it was just a matter of working hard. It's not simple, it's not easy. You see, getting dealt a shitty hand sucks, and sometimes you can win with a shitty hand, but if you've played poker you know it's complicated. If you are dealt a 2-9 in a classical poker game chances are you will fold right away. Another problem right there is that no one in the casino gets dealt a worse hand for being black (I think), or if you got a bad hand because the dealer didn't know how to mix the cards correctly.

This works in a vicious cycle - Basically, you may be just poor, but chances are that the nearest schools has criminals from the ghetto as well. Since you are poor your clothes are old and dirty, so people will see you as a thug (If you're white you'll be seen as hipster/hippie, at least it's what happens to me) so it's hard to avoid police harassment or noticing people's fear in their eyes even if you mean no harm. Since your school sucks your education will suck as well, so finding a job is more complicated, or getting into college. On top of that, the chances of getting the job as black, even with affirmative action, are lower because of things like ingrained bias. If you add the fact blacks are arrested far more often, and for things like carrying marijuana (don't forget the US profits from incarceration so maybe they need to imprison people and blacks are the easy target), the fact they are more marginalized in school, wage gaps , housing discrimination, etc - It's all fucked up and immensely complex. It really is, and while you mentioned choices sometimes there is none to zero. And the worst part is - Many of these prejudices stop blacks from getting out of poverty and achieving equality. When you are that fucked up, turning to a group of brothas may be the only choice, and the cycle repeats itself with your kids

I don't think whites should feel guilty for slavery, but when blacks blame others they aren't blaming any specific white - That's what whites fail to see - They are blaming a system that doesn't give a shit about them and tells them they should work harder even when it's noticeable it just doesn't work. The blame on slavery isn't right now because of the harm done in the past, it's because it caused massive segregation, lack of education (and thus blacks have lower IQ's), and the effects are still felt today very strongly because one group simply started way ahead.

I'm putting a comic here that pretty much shows my point



You see? It's really how it happened. Whites released blacks from slavery and shit on them. Even with affirmative action it isn't enough. Things like criminality and poverty are really not choices - Criminality is, at the most, a rational choice people make when it's reliable, few criminals are psychopaths, they do it for a variety of reasons. Since many blacks grow up in the ghetto and have a need for social interaction they join the group that will protect them - The brothas.

All of this to say that - No, it isn't that simple, and racism still exists. Not KKK racism (at least not much) but institutionalized racism that affects people's lives in things like (1) Police violence (And yes whites suffer it too but being white doesn't increase the chances of getting shot) (2) Wage and job gaps (3) college gaps (4)Racial profiling (5) School to prison pipeline (6)Housing discrimination (7) Poverty

I actually think you are just genuinely trying to understand the issue so I hope this cleared things up. It is one thing to be dealt a Jack and a 10, it's a decent hand but not that great, but being dealt something like a 2-9 sucks and screws your chances. Even if you put a white in the same problem, it's much easier to get out of poverty as white than as black because you face less discrimination and get a job easily. It's easier to say blacks should stop blaming others - But I don't think blacks are blaming anyone in particular, they are blaming the system and rightfully. I imagined I was white and whites were in the same situation. Do you know how I would feel? Completely outraged. It's easy to say racism is over because the president is black and there's black hollywood actors but it's far from that. I have never met these blacks who blame literally everything on the system because some things are your fault, but asking for a better start and for people to recognize prejudice still exists is not much. All of the things they can do to get out like getting a job are harder while black.