(April 28, 2015 at 10:04 am)Alex K Wrote:

(April 28, 2015 at 9:58 am)pocaracas Wrote: If our eye is so perfect, then why make an even better one and give it to eagles?

Original sin. Before the fall, our eyes were perfect.

Pulling that out of where the sun don't shine, huh?
Got any reference to back that up?

(April 28, 2015 at 10:10 am)pocaracas Wrote:

(April 28, 2015 at 10:04 am)Alex K Wrote: Original sin. Before the fall, our eyes were perfect.

Pulling that out of where the sun don't shine, huh?
Got any reference to back that up?

It's implicit. Before the fall, child birth was (nearly) painless (Genesis 3), for instance. We can assume that other, comparably mild, inconveniences, were also part of the package, but weren't explicitly mentioned because it would be obvious that it was punishment for original sin.

(April 28, 2015 at 10:15 am)Alex K Wrote:

(April 28, 2015 at 10:10 am)pocaracas Wrote: Pulling that out of where the sun don't shine, huh?
Got any reference to back that up?

It's implicit. Before the fall, child birth was (nearly) painless (Genesis 3), for instance. We can assume that other, comparably mild, inconveniences, were also part of the package, but weren't explicitly mentioned because it would be obvious that it was punishment for original sin.

I don't remember there being childbirth before that fall... How would anyone know how much it hurt?

You see, when they ate from the tree of knowledge, they received the knowledge that childbirth wouldn't have been painful had they experienced it before the fall.

Woulda' been like spittin' sunflower seeds.

(April 28, 2015 at 10:22 am)pocaracas Wrote:

(April 28, 2015 at 10:15 am)Alex K Wrote: It's implicit. Before the fall, child birth was (nearly) painless (Genesis 3), for instance. We can assume that other, comparably mild, inconveniences, were also part of the package, but weren't explicitly mentioned because it would be obvious that it was punishment for original sin.

I don't remember there being childbirth before that fall... How would anyone know how much it hurt?

Genesis 3:

16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

(April 28, 2015 at 10:57 am)Pyrrho Wrote:

(April 28, 2015 at 10:22 am)pocaracas Wrote: I don't remember there being childbirth before that fall... How would anyone know how much it hurt?

Genesis 3:

16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

Damn.... I gotta show this to my bossy catholic wife!

(April 28, 2015 at 10:04 am)Alex K Wrote:

(April 28, 2015 at 9:58 am)pocaracas Wrote: If our eye is so perfect, then why make an even better one and give it to eagles?

Original sin. Before the fall, our eyes were perfect.

I see you have spent too much time around Christians.

However, that is irrelevant to the original argument.  It is the human eye, as it presently exists, that is supposedly only to be explained by reference to God.

And for the original argument, that the human eye must have had a designer:  in that case, the designer must have been an incompetent buffoon.  If you consider all of the people who need glasses, or who get corrective surgery, one finds that the failure rate for the human eye is near 100%.  That indicates a poor design, and so we have an incompetent designer who designed the eye.  Indeed, humans are capable of making artificial eyes that are, in many respects, superior to a human eye, and so it would seem that humans must be superior to God.

I wonder why humans and other creatures evolved to have such a painful and dangerous way to give birth.

Seems like poor design, eh Lek?

Actually, child birth hardly show much evidence of being painful in most mammals.

Jehovah generally sucked so much all around that only those unfortunately enough to be made in his image could inherit the anatomical deficiencies underlying bad back, lousy knees, and oh, yes, painful child birth.

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(April 28, 2015 at 9:58 am)pocaracas Wrote: If our eye is so perfect, then why make an even better one and give it to eagles?

Retina of an eagle's eyes suffer from the same shit quality bass ackwards high level design as the human eye.   The wires that send visual image from the retina to the brain crosses in front of the light sensing cells, casting shadows, blocking the retina, and generally reducing visual acuity, rather than crossing behind it as even an 8 year old tinker would known enough to ensure.  

For a more elegant eye, you need to go to the Cephalopods.   Their retinas are actually correctly oriented and wired.