Onion and potatoes are vegetables, NOT bread!!!

So there.

Boru

If some want to argue genetics can be traced to traditions of homogeneous, that attitude merely reflects our species attitude of flocking to like minded people. But that does not mean it is a really good way of viewing our evolutionary behavior. The reality is our species has always mixed and is why we evolved to look so different worldwide.

I have given the example before, say a couple migrates from China, they have a kid in the United States, that kid grows up here. That kid would not have the same experiences as a kid whose parents did not move from China. Alot like Jews living in America do not always agree with the right wing politics of Netenyahu.

And even what Americans call Native Americans are also immigrants because we now know our planet had larger ice caps and land bridges that allowed movement from the Russian islands to Alaska. And even whith Mexicans, and South Americans, there were also "Natives" that white Spanish Europeans mixed with we now call "latinos".

And even when you compare the Northern Islands of Japan with the Russian Islands you can see similarities between the two.

THE POINT IS that we as a species will manage our differences much better the sooner more of our species understands evolutionary wise what SHOULD matter more isn't religion or race, but HOW we treat each other as individuals.

But especially with the three biggest troublemakers, they are RELIGIONS that all started in the same region, whom came from polytheism and even after being established were mixing even then.

It is even expected in America with more and more mixing that humans will be more darker complected on average and our facial features will change too.

We have to put our common existence before our labels and that is why the big three need to be treated as RELIGIONS instead of races. It really should not matter how homogeneous anyone stays, what should be more important is to stop letting our species labels pit each other against each other.

Most of us KNOW the concept of race is largely a thing of superficial things like skin color. Even then, there IS an environmental issue where people with light skin would be much more susceptible to deadly conditions like melanoma in the tropic regions and people with dark skin would be at much greater risk for inadequate vitamin A absorption in polar latitudes. Ignoring that is ignoring science.

People should be aware that in the whole, there are very few genetic differences from any of us. Any intellectually tested differences between an Australian aborigine and an Eskimo are likely to be environmentally based. It would be a mistake to ignore that there ARE evolutionary differences. I don't think these differences are remotely applicable as indicators of who is more fit for employment or leadership, however. Those things must ALWAYS be based on individual merit.

We should not be afraid of the undeniable and mostly trivial differences between us. We are all people. There may be differences of average ability between those of us of different "races" but even then, one should always place foremost value on the capabilities of the INDIVIDUAL.

Something about race - Frequently I hear someone say "race doesn't exist" because it's a social construct. So what? The fact it's a social construct doesn't mean it doesn't exist, it means it exists as a fucking social construct. I define race as a form of categorizing people according to history, culture and physical appearance (I think it's the dictionary one). Biologically, if we take away diseases there are not a lot of differences. There is however a tendency for some groups to develop better or worse nurturing. Ashkenazi Jews do have high IQ's and it's partly due to eugenics done in the past and environment factors - That's why Jews are successful and Hitler got mad at them.

(April 28, 2015 at 1:32 pm)AFTT47 Wrote: Most of us KNOW the concept of race is largely a thing of superficial things like skin color. Even then, there IS an environmental issue where people with light skin would be much more susceptible to deadly conditions like melanoma in the tropic regions and people with dark skin would be at much greater risk for inadequate vitamin A absorption in polar latitudes. Ignoring that is ignoring science.

People should be aware that in the whole, there are very few genetic differences from any of us. Any intellectually tested differences between an Australian aborigine and an Eskimo are likely to be environmentally based. It would be a mistake to ignore that there ARE evolutionary differences. I don't think these differences are remotely applicable as indicators of who is more fit for employment or leadership, however. Those things must ALWAYS be based on individual merit.

We should not be afraid of the undeniable and mostly trivial differences between us. We are all people. There may be differences of average ability between those of us of different "races" but even then, one should always place foremost value on the capabilities of the INDIVIDUAL.

BINGO.....

I love our species empathetic side in our diversity, but I hate that part of our empathetic side that while well intended actually gives cover to the dark side of our evolution, our tribalism. 

When humans talk of traditions and nationalism and ideology and religion and skin color, it is a failure to see DNA proves we are all related. Shakespeare said it and so did Sagan, all this is meaningless outside trying to extend the only home we have.

(April 27, 2015 at 5:38 pm)Tiberius Wrote: You are correct concerning the term "Muslim" though. There is no "Muslim" race.

No, but there's rampant anti muslim bigotry, which uses the same kind of scapegoating and terminology as racism and particularly antisemitism does. The results can be as devastating. Whenever a particular group is targetted simply for being a certain group it is totally irrelevant if they are a race or have some other common defining factor.

The race part in Muslims is when people consider Islam = Arab. My parents don't say they dislike Muslims, they say they dislike arabs, and I'm sure there's a lot of people who think alike and associate Arab with Muslim.

Only 20-30% of Muslims are actually Arab, but thanks to the fact most people from countries like Iraq are arab and people like Bin Laden and terrorists Muslims are associated with brown skinned long beard arabs (and any clothes that look muslim)

(April 28, 2015 at 1:35 pm)Dystopia Wrote: Something about race - Frequently I hear someone say "race doesn't exist" because it's a social construct. So what? The fact it's a social construct doesn't mean it doesn't exist, it means it exists as a fucking social construct. I define race as a form of categorizing people according to history, culture and physical appearance (I think it's the dictionary one). Biologically, if we take away diseases there are not a lot of differences. There is however a tendency for some groups to develop better or worse nurturing. Ashkenazi Jews do have high IQ's and it's partly due to eugenics done in the past and environment factors - That's why Jews are successful and Hitler got mad at them.

No one should ignore that it is an issue. But once you know humans are related through DNA it makes it much harder to allow people to hide behind it when they know that tribalism hurts others. One is the issue of human rights, the other is an excuse humans use.

Humans have always migrated and mixed which is why we look so different worldwide, but that does not change our species ability to be cruel or compassionate. And at this point in our species history the big three are on the edge of taking the entire planet out over old books, and all three hide behind labels like race and nationalism to ignore this.

I refuse to allow these three that cover anymore. Religion is the root cause of it and while you cant force religion out of existence, you take away those excuses, you can manage those differences better. How we as individuals physically treat others should be our priority as a species, not our religions or boarders. 

(April 28, 2015 at 5:12 pm)abaris Wrote:

(April 27, 2015 at 5:38 pm)Tiberius Wrote: You are correct concerning the term "Muslim" though. There is no "Muslim" race.

No, but there's rampant anti muslim bigotry, which uses the same kind of scapegoating and terminology as racism and particularly antisemitism does. The results can be as devastating. Whenever a particular group is targetted simply for being a certain group it is totally irrelevant if they are a race or have some other common defining factor.

After Hebdo, Muslims were rightfully claiming discrimination. And also after Hebdo Jews rightfully complained that they also get discriminated against. But neither want to face the elephant in the room. You can make it about race, ethnic or culture all you want, but what is causing it is religion itself. It is a false argument to claim people view those labels differently, no one is disputing that. 

The long term history is that one religion was created in antiquity, that religion created holy books, then another religion was created and they too wrote holy books, both of those holy books tell the respective followers they are more special than anyone else, even when you can find motifs of compassion for others, they are still very tribal books that are written to promote one tribe as being more important than the others.

The labels of race and ethnic and culture and nationalism are excuses to avoid that religion is causing it. NOW AGAIN that is not a call to end either religion as if you could. But if you face that reality you take away all those other excuses and those differences become less important than civility which I would hope humans can agree with.

Those books respectively promote a "chosen people" a tribe, and civility wont grow until that is accepted as the root of religious divisions. So I do believe both Muslims and Jews when they say they are discriminated against, and I am offering them a solution to reduce that and bring more civility between them.

Judaism can be a race, it can also be a social group, but in the sense that a lot of people use it, they desperately try to imply that being Jewish is always a race and therefore, it is racism to disparage Judaism.  They also try to do it with Islam, for which there is absolutely no defense.  Brian is absolutely right that in practice, this race-card crap is obnoxious and false, even if in practice, some Jews can be part of a common racial group.