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RE: Shots fired in Dallas of mohammed cartoons.
May 8, 2015 at 12:29 am
(This post was last modified: May 8, 2015 at 12:34 am by Hatshepsut.)
(May 7, 2015 at 6:11 pm)Nestor Wrote: I don't think people realize that part of the culture war that secularism confronts in religion, and one of the reasons for the former's relatively recent success in the West, is the ability to take these superfluous beliefs that people treat with utmost seriousness and make them appear to be what they in fact are---totally unserious, and even flat-out silly...
I'm glad to see that someone realizes there is a culture war on. Although I'm not sure the beliefs in question are either superfluous (they form a core part of the personal identities of many believers) or un-serious (they weren't promulgated as jokes). Nonetheless, they are often harmful.
What strikes me with the Muslim thing about drawing Muhammad is this prohibition's ahistoricity. Islam originally forbade "graven images" because it wanted to set its followers apart from nearby pagans who used such images for religious purposes. It also betrays insecurity because a religion that perceives itself as resting on a solid foundation doesn't worry about outsiders who lampoon it. Some theists are able to poke fun at themselves, but conservative Muslims apparently can't.
(May 7, 2015 at 5:59 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: Islamo-Christians...
...? Is that sort of like Judeo-Bolshevists? 
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RE: Shots fired in Dallas of mohammed cartoons.
May 8, 2015 at 12:48 am
(May 8, 2015 at 12:29 am)Hatshepsut Wrote: (May 7, 2015 at 5:59 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: Islamo-Christians...
...? Is that sort of like Judeo-Bolshevists?
The two religions are such identical twins in my view, I often use that term.
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RE: Shots fired in Dallas of mohammed cartoons.
May 8, 2015 at 4:31 am
(This post was last modified: May 8, 2015 at 4:33 am by Wyrd of Gawd.)
(May 8, 2015 at 12:29 am)Hatshepsut Wrote:
I'm glad to see that someone realizes there is a culture war on. Although I'm not sure the beliefs in question are either superfluous (they form a core part of the personal identities of many believers) or un-serious (they weren't promulgated as jokes). Nonetheless, they are often harmful.
What strikes me with the Muslim thing about drawing Muhammad is this prohibition's ahistoricity. Islam originally forbade "graven images" because it wanted to set its followers apart from nearby pagans who used such images for religious purposes. It also betrays insecurity because a religion that perceives itself as resting on a solid foundation doesn't worry about outsiders who lampoon it. Some theists are able to poke fun at themselves, but conservative Muslims apparently can't.
The muslims probably got their phobia about Mohammed images from the Jews' First Commandment that prohibits idols. After all, Islam is a mixture of Judaism and Christianity.
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RE: Shots fired in Dallas of mohammed cartoons.
May 8, 2015 at 9:58 am
(This post was last modified: May 8, 2015 at 10:44 am by Hatshepsut.)
(May 8, 2015 at 12:48 am)DeistPaladin Wrote: The two religions are such identical twins in my view, I often use that term.
There were Jewish & Christian minorities alongside the pagan majority in 7th century Mecca and extensive borrowing of their conceptual corpus into the Quran. The latter nonetheless did have its own take, for instance altering the Mary & Jesus story to suit its own ideology. I think that viewing the Abrahimic religions as identical to one another is not too accurate; it would be like equating the USA with England just because England was America's mother country and had supplied its concept of "rights." But then we do have that term, "Anglo-American." Or should it be "Amerigo-British?"
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RE: Shots fired in Dallas of mohammed cartoons.
May 8, 2015 at 10:56 am
(May 8, 2015 at 9:58 am)Hatshepsut Wrote: I think that viewing the Abrahimic religions as identical to one another is not too accurate;
None of the flavors of Christianity are identical to one another. That doesn't stop of from saying "Christianity" when speaking of aspects the modern versions all have in common.
Both Michael Moore and Fred Phelps call themselves "Christian" but their views of what that means couldn't be more different.
Even within the same denomination of Christianity, views will vary wildly.
Did you know there was much more variation in theology among the early Christianities of the first few centuries than there is between modern Christianity and Islam? Both today's Christians and Muslims would agree there is one god, that Mary was a virgin, that Jesus was a physical person, that Jesus flew up into the sky to be with God. All these things were a controversy among early Christians.
From my perspective as a non-believer, I can only tell them (Islam and Christianity) apart because of their costumes.
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RE: Shots fired in Dallas of mohammed cartoons.
May 8, 2015 at 11:00 am
(This post was last modified: May 8, 2015 at 11:01 am by robvalue.)
It's all the same to me, in terms of how much sense it makes anyway. One fairy tale is as good as another. Everyone thinks their fairy tale is special. The only difference is what actions each is likely to inspire.
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RE: Shots fired in Dallas of mohammed cartoons.
May 8, 2015 at 11:28 am
I see Michael Moore and Fred Phelps as both being scripture cherry pickers, and hardly different from each other at all.
Just sayin' . . . .
The granting of a pardon is an imputation of guilt, and the acceptance a confession of it.
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RE: Shots fired in Dallas of mohammed cartoons.
May 8, 2015 at 2:04 pm
(May 8, 2015 at 11:28 am)vorlon13 Wrote: I see Michael Moore and Fred Phelps as both being scripture cherry pickers, and hardly different from each other at all.
Just sayin' . . . .
When scripture contradicts itself everywhere, you have to be a cherry picker to some extent.
Or perhaps you might go by majority rules, where if there are more verses that say X, they outvote the verses that say Y?
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RE: Shots fired in Dallas of mohammed cartoons.
May 8, 2015 at 2:34 pm
(This post was last modified: May 8, 2015 at 2:43 pm by Hatshepsut.)
(May 8, 2015 at 10:56 am)DeistPaladin Wrote: Did you know there was much more variation in theology among the early Christianities of the first few centuries than there is between modern Christianity and Islam?
Indeed that could very well be true, but it still wouldn't make the latter two critters identical to one another. You also have to watch those costumes: That turban might belong to a Sikh.
(May 8, 2015 at 2:04 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: When scripture contradicts itself everywhere...
I was once told that contradictions are an inherent fact of life and that it is a mark of maturity to accept their presence as normal. After all, Marx's contradiction-riddled capitalism has yet to collapse in a revolution, although of course only time will tell on that score.
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RE: Shots fired in Dallas of mohammed cartoons.
May 8, 2015 at 2:48 pm
(This post was last modified: May 8, 2015 at 3:19 pm by DeistPaladin.)
I find much more difference between Sikh and Islamo-Christianity than I do between either one of the latter.
In any event, my criticism of one usually applies to the other so, if it's all the same to you, I'll continue using the term just to save time.
Quote:I was once told that contradictions are an inherent fact of life and that it is a mark of maturity to accept their presence as normal. After all, Marx's contradiction-riddled capitalism has yet to collapse in a revolution, although of course only time will tell on that score.
The Law of Infinite Probabilities says that anything which can happen, however unlikely, over infinite time and/or infinite space will happen. If you wait long enough, all things will come to pass. Well, at least the possible ones.
![[Image: 11148551_899639253421899_613284000548440...e=55C1D2BA]](https://scontent-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/s720x720/11148551_899639253421899_6132840005484403774_n.jpg?oh=7eaea6b7ee9ca23c1721a878165e4483&oe=55C1D2BA)
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
... -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
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... -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
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