(May 13, 2015 at 5:52 pm)Pandæmonium Wrote: So ubiquitous that almost every human to have ever lived has come to a completely different conclusion.

Yeah, but all of them are just in love with their sin.

Maybe he's got a point. I know for a fact that I don't exist.

I remember reading a scientific study that caused a great deal of controversy for saying that technically atheists do not exist - But this wasn't to claim some religion was factually true but to explain delusions and irrationality are so deeply ingrained in our minds that in theory we all hold irrational beliefs (the word atheist was used on a broader definition to gather beliefs in afterlives and other metaphysical unverifiable beliefs) - This is actually an interesting point - Wondering if it's scientifically possible for both our conscious and subconscious side to be totally 100% convinced there are no gods or if there will always be some irrational beliefs (like believing in things like "luck", for example)?

Being a creationist is wonderful to a very minor degree because you really don't need to understand anything let alone reading books on evolution

(May 13, 2015 at 7:55 pm)Dystopia Wrote: I remember reading a scientific study that caused a great deal of controversy for saying that technically atheists do not exist - But this wasn't to claim some religion was factually true but to explain delusions and irrationality are so deeply ingrained in our minds that in theory we all hold irrational beliefs (the word atheist was used on a broader definition to gather beliefs in afterlives and other metaphysical unverifiable beliefs) - This is actually an interesting point - Wondering if it's scientifically possible for both our conscious and subconscious side to be totally 100% convinced there are no gods or if there will always be some irrational beliefs (like believing in things like "luck", for example)?

Being a creationist is wonderful to a very minor degree because you really don't need to understand anything let alone reading books on evolution

People are crazy and stupid.  Don't let anyone ever tell you different.  After all, they are crazy and stupid.

Ah, so much money just asking to be apart from the gullible. I wish I could lie like that and keep a straight face, but I am betrayed by my honesty.

Before this thread, I had no idea that this cunt was using up our air.

(May 13, 2015 at 9:40 am)Stimbo Wrote: ICR's Jason Lisle, with qualifications to fill the Grand Canyon, says that Romans 1 is all the proof you need.

link

Quote:"The evidence of God is ubiquitous. It is everywhere,” Dr. Lisle tells Seewald in the video below. "In fact, Roman 1 tells us that God has revealed himself to everyone, and what that means is, there is really no such thing as an atheist."

Despite being a researcher, he says that he has no need to even prove it.

"I don’t really have to give new evidence to a professing atheist," Lisle explains. "All I have to do is expose his suppressed knowledge of God, because you see, in Romans I again, it tells us that the reason that unbelievers profess, you know, they say there’s no God, et cetera et cetera, it’s not because they don’t know Him, it’s because they’re suppressing the truth in unrighteousness. The Bible says."

It must be wonderful to be a creationist - all that funding and you don't have to do anything.

Claiming to have "no need to even prove it," is different than claiming "I won't prove it."  If you read carefully he, standing upon the truth of Romans 1, says "All I have to do is expose his suppressed knowledge of God."  

(May 13, 2015 at 9:53 am)Alex K Wrote: Some researcher, that guy. I wonder what his research grant proposals ask for - I suppose band aids for paper cuts, mostly...

No where in this excerpt did he say he doesn't need to prove creationism.

(May 13, 2015 at 11:34 am)Pyrrho Wrote: Not only that, but logic isn't endorsed by the Bible.  Logic is a tool of the devil and to be rejected by all Christians.  Indeed, they all do at some point in their thinking about religion.

Scriptural evidence for this claim is....

(May 13, 2015 at 11:35 am)Esquilax Wrote: This is it. This is how, more than anything else, we can tell how badly christianity, and specifically the fundamentalist sect of it, is losing ground in the marketplace of ideas: so much of its defense of the faith is little more than dictating the positions of their opponents, or just outright pretending that there are no opponents, and everyone in the world agrees with them. They can't compete in an actual argument, and so they take it upon themselves to speak for everyone else too, and wouldn't you know it, it turns out that everyone else secretly believes as they do!  

On the one hand I agree with you.  It does seem that more and more Christian's are unable to properly submit to 1 Peter 3:15.  Because while the Bible is truth, quoting it doesn't necessarily provide our reason.

On the other hand that fact does not necessarily negate the truth of the Bible, nor would it necessitate that somehow God endorses a lack of understanding.

(May 13, 2015 at 11:37 am)robvalue Wrote: Agreed, it's getting to the point where a 4 year old could see the gaping holes.

I have one argument/statement that I don't think they can counter:

I don't care if it's all true. I'll carry on as normal.

What can they say to that?

At least you're being honest.

I would add that a 'lack of caring if it's true' would be a specific example of suppressing the truth in unrighteousness.

(May 13, 2015 at 1:22 pm)zebo-the-fat Wrote: He seems to be saying that I don't exist! I never knew that.

You're not thinking clearly.  He didn't say you personally don't exist, He's saying your worldview (Atheism) doesn't.

(May 13, 2015 at 3:28 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: It's just the same apologist "try harder" BS.

"God exists!  Evidence for his existence is everywhere!  You just need to know how to see it!  And even atheists know this!  They're just trying to deceive themselves and you for ill-defined, but assuredly evil, reasons!"
"Um... I've looked.  I've listened.  I tried praying.  But, I don't really see any evidence for god.  Not just your god, but any god."
"You're not doing it right.  You didn't do it honestly.  Try again, with an open mind this time."
"Wait, what?  Why are you claiming I wasn't honest in my search for god?"
"Because you didn't find him.  And by 'him', I mean my god, specifically.  Not those false gods."
"Whoa, wait, wait wait.... If I find your god, that means I was honest in trying to find him, it, whatever.  But if I don't, despite years of seeking and asking, I'm not being honest in my search?  Even if that search leads me to a different god?"
"That's right."
"..."
"So, as you can see, you're obviously doing it wrong.  You're doing it dishonestly.  Try again.  Try harder."

It would be laughable if it wasn't such an embarrassing way to think.

It is true that the conclusions we draw are filtered through our worldview.  That being said, if our worldview is flawed or even self-refuting, we wouldn't be able to trust any conclusions that we make.    

The problem with all that, orangebox, is that he, nor anyone else, can't even get off the ground floor in demonstrating we don't actually believe in God. This is a combination of two things, a refusal to acknowledge an opposing view as a defense mechanism and a desire to justify a literal interpretation of a highly flawed religious text.

Fortunately for us atheists, this argument is as ludicrous as belief in the bible itself.

I'm suppressing the truth in unrighteousness? Could you explain what that means please?

I'm not saying it's false, I have no need to. I just say I don't see evidence it is true. And as it happens, I don't care if it is true.

Guys, it's cool, creationists don't actually exist, they just want to rebel against evolution