(April 20, 2015 at 2:50 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: And yet, on an intellectual level I cannot ignore the likelihood that alternative forms of marriage will have negative cultural effects. Many of those will eventually affect me and the people I care about. Anyone that is concerned about crime, equal opportunity, income disparity, and social stability should seriously reflect on such changes.

Can you demonstrate that gay marriages would threaten such effects?  Cite your sources.

Between two sentient beings who wish to get it on long term.

Define marriage....

Marry what ever the fuck you want as long as you are happy.
Except children because that is wrong very wrong.

(May 16, 2015 at 1:14 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote:

(April 20, 2015 at 2:50 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: And yet, on an intellectual level I cannot ignore the likelihood that alternative forms of marriage will have negative cultural effects. Many of those will eventually affect me and the people I care about. Anyone that is concerned about crime, equal opportunity, income disparity, and social stability should seriously reflect on such changes.

Can you demonstrate that gay marriages would threaten such effects?  Cite your sources.

Chad, I am curious what specific negative effects you believe same sex marriage will cause to our culture. You obviously believe that these changes will somehow impact people you love but you didn't write in what way? Can you give an example? I can't think of anyway that two guys marrying will hurt my family.

(May 17, 2015 at 6:42 pm)Nope Wrote:

(May 16, 2015 at 1:14 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote: Can you demonstrate that gay marriages would threaten such effects?  Cite your sources.

Chad, I am curious what specific negative effects you believe same sex marriage will cause to our culture. You obviously believe that these changes will somehow impact people you love but you didn't write in what way? Can you give an example? I can't think of anyway that two guys marrying will hurt my family.

He can't.  I am in a heterosexual marriage, with it being our first marriage for both of us.  What my neighbor does is totally irrelevant to my marriage.  These people are just idiots, who imagine that gay marriage hurts heterosexual marriage.  I am inclined to think that they must secretly be gay, thinking to themselves, Damn, if I had just waited, I could have married someone of my sex, so now I need to get a divorce.

It is just total bullshit nonsense.  Whether my neighbor is gay or not, and whether he marries or not, has nothing to do with my marriage.

The depths of human stupidity seem limitless.

Consider this: just because two people of the same gender get married, it doesn't mean either of them is homosexual. And it doesn't mean they are ever going to have any sort of sexual activity together. Whether or not either of the above is the case are no business of anyone else's, nor should assumptions be made about hypothetical person 1 and 2.

So arguments that say same sex marriage is wrong have to deal with this scenario too. Then what? They're not having children? They can do. They could use a surrogate, and can do so whether or not they are married.

(April 20, 2015 at 2:50 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: Rebecarox, I cannot say that personally I care all that much. The depravity, promiscuity,  and over-sexualization of Western culture have already done their damage, unwed mothers, high abortion rates, custody battles, etc.. I choose to ignore it and go on with my life. And yet, on an intellectual level I cannot ignore the likelihood that alternative forms of marriage will have negative cultural effects. Many of those will eventually affect me and the people I care about. Anyone that is concerned about crime, equal opportunity, income disparity, and social stability should seriously reflect on such changes.

For example, I had a friend that was raised in a commune. None of the children were certain about who their real parents were. When the adults gave favor to some children over others for no apparent reason, the children got very confused. While not inevitable, these kids grew up with lots of issues. Few people would deny that today’s high divorce rates and serial monogamy negatively affect the children. Why would Western democracies want to create even more problems for themselves?

Robvalue, unfortunately the concerns raised by the 'slippery slope' argument have already started. I know of at lease one case about the constitutionality of plural marriage bans has started making its way through the courts.

What negative effects and how did you determine the probability of such a thing? Did you know that same-sex marriage has been legal in several countries for a while now? Countries like Canada, Sweden, Norway, Spain, the Netherlands, and many others. Where are all of these negative effects? Society as we know has not come to a halt in any of those countries and there aren't any roving bands of cannibals or people marrying their dogs, as some would have you believe. The is the same type of fear-mongering we have seen mostly from religious fundamentalists in the past. We saw it when the Suffragists were fighting for the vote. We saw it when black people were fighting for civil rights. Anytime an oppressed group fights to gain the same rights as everyone else, you will always see this type of argument used against them.

(May 16, 2015 at 7:03 pm)dyresand Wrote: Define marriage....

Marry what ever the fuck you want as long as you are happy.
Except children because that is wrong very wrong.

Whether gay, straight or Martian.

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Perhaps gay bliss in marriage makes them devalue their straight marriage?

Marriage should always be defined as two individuals who love each other.

Do we really have to resort to Chad's misunderstanding of love?

Hopefully they love each other, but even that isn't a requirement. All that is actually required is they enter into the contract legally.

You couldn't even make it a requirement, as it's not something that could be tested!

But of course, I'd sincerely hope every marriage is based on love and serious emotional commitment. I'm just saying you can't stop people doing it for other reasons, for example to get tax breaks.