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RE: Ask a Catholic
June 6, 2015 at 5:01 pm
(This post was last modified: June 6, 2015 at 5:02 pm by nihilistcat.)
(June 6, 2015 at 4:52 pm)Randy Carson Wrote: Thank you, Cato.
As the theist scurries away with his head between his tail proclaiming .... all that confounded rotten pickin dang science will be gone one day, but there will still be heaven.
Ummm, nope there won't even be heaven (no matter how much you stomp your feet), cause the collective imagination of religionists will die the moment they die.
I'll let you figure out that one all by yourself there bubba (if you can handle it) 
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RE: Ask a Catholic
June 6, 2015 at 5:03 pm
(This post was last modified: June 6, 2015 at 5:05 pm by Randy Carson.)
(June 6, 2015 at 3:10 pm)francismjenkins Wrote: (June 6, 2015 at 3:05 pm)Stimbo Wrote: He already knows that. After all, we're all angry at his pet god after the abuses we suffered as children.
I so hate the "angry at god" crap that we're so often accused of ... I mean, if the obvious contradiction of being angry at something that we don't think exists isn't enough, how about this. Why would a god have to be benevolent? I mean, that doesn't seems to be an argument against the existence of god (although it may be an argument against the reasonableness of worshiping such a being). Surely, a malevolent god is just as plausible as a benevolent god, in fact I would say more so. If we were created in god's image, then it would stand to reason that god is just as selfish, violent, and self-interested as we are (and when I read the buy-bull ... that is precisely my impression)
But I'm just as skeptical when it comes to new age (peace and love) type religiosity as I am with conventional religion. Bullshit is bullshit, whether pleasant and dressed up with swirling lollipops and flowers or not.
Let's be clear, okay?
I have never said that ALL atheists are angry at God. Some are living immorally and don't want to give up the sex, drugs, pornography, etc. Some are simply unconvinced by the evidence (which they claim is a lack thereof). Some are simply indifferent.
There are stong atheists, weak atheists, strong agnostics, weak agnostics, apatheists and Jesus Mythers. Who knows what other subcategories might exist?
However, despite the fact that I am ROUTINELY lumped in with all manner of fundies and whack jobs simply because I am a Christian (by folks who wouldn't know the difference between a Seventh Day Adventist and a Jehovah's Witness if one rang their doorbell), I do not lump all atheists together.
(June 6, 2015 at 4:57 pm)Esquilax Wrote: (June 6, 2015 at 4:52 pm)Randy Carson Wrote:
There is already an active thread like that.
Sure! But that's run by atheists. You've already stated that you know more about atheists that you've never met than atheists do! I'd rather hear what somebody who doesn't know any of us has to say about what we think; obviously it'd be so much more accurate than our own accounts of the things in our minds!
Could you please reference the post # in which I claimed to know more about atheism than atheists do?
I'd like to check what I wrote in context. Thanks.
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RE: Ask a Catholic
June 6, 2015 at 5:08 pm
You cannot support the first two contentions (angry at "God", want to live immorally). As for the third - well, we can hardly be blamed for being unconvinced by a lack of convincing evidence. Get better evidence.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Ask a Catholic
June 6, 2015 at 5:19 pm
(June 6, 2015 at 5:03 pm)Randy Carson Wrote: (June 6, 2015 at 3:10 pm)francismjenkins Wrote: I so hate the "angry at god" crap that we're so often accused of ... I mean, if the obvious contradiction of being angry at something that we don't think exists isn't enough, how about this. Why would a god have to be benevolent? I mean, that doesn't seems to be an argument against the existence of god (although it may be an argument against the reasonableness of worshiping such a being). Surely, a malevolent god is just as plausible as a benevolent god, in fact I would say more so. If we were created in god's image, then it would stand to reason that god is just as selfish, violent, and self-interested as we are (and when I read the buy-bull ... that is precisely my impression)
But I'm just as skeptical when it comes to new age (peace and love) type religiosity as I am with conventional religion. Bullshit is bullshit, whether pleasant and dressed up with swirling lollipops and flowers or not.
Let's be clear, okay?
I have never said that ALL atheists are angry at God. Some are living immorally and don't want to give up the sex, drugs, pornography, etc. Some are simply unconvinced by the evidence (which they claim is a lack thereof). Some are simply indifferent.
There are stong atheists, weak atheists, strong agnostics, weak agnostics, apatheists and Jesus Mythers. Who knows what other subcategories might exist?
However, despite the fact that I am ROUTINELY lumped in with all manner of fundies and whack jobs simply because I am a Christian (by folks who wouldn't know the difference between a Seventh Day Adventist and a Jehovah's Witness if one rang their doorbell), I do not lump all atheists together.
(June 6, 2015 at 4:57 pm)Esquilax Wrote: Sure! But that's run by atheists. You've already stated that you know more about atheists that you've never met than atheists do! I'd rather hear what somebody who doesn't know any of us has to say about what we think; obviously it'd be so much more accurate than our own accounts of the things in our minds!
Could you please reference the post # in which I claimed to know more about atheism than atheists do?
I'd like to check what I wrote in context. Thanks.
From your other thread:
"There are no atheists in foxholes."
https://atheistforums.org/post-959270.html#pid959270
Nolite te bastardes carborundorum.
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RE: Ask a Catholic
June 6, 2015 at 5:22 pm
(This post was last modified: June 6, 2015 at 5:22 pm by Randy Carson.)
(June 6, 2015 at 5:19 pm)rexbeccarox Wrote: From your other thread:
"There are no atheists in foxholes."
https://atheistforums.org/post-959270.html#pid959270
Before we go too far with this, please look of the definition of "aphorism" (which I provided in my post).
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RE: Ask a Catholic
June 6, 2015 at 5:31 pm
(June 6, 2015 at 5:22 pm)Randy Carson Wrote: (June 6, 2015 at 5:19 pm)rexbeccarox Wrote: From your other thread:
"There are no atheists in foxholes."
https://atheistforums.org/post-959270.html#pid959270
Before we go too far with this, please look of the definition of "aphorism" (which I provided in my post).
Your statement wasn't even aphorism its opposite aphorism.
To say a atheist will believe in god in extreme situation as being in combat.
I'm pretty sure the last thing a soldiers mind is god when they are getting shot at. 
Atheism is a non-prophet organization join today.
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RE: Ask a Catholic
June 6, 2015 at 5:32 pm
(June 6, 2015 at 4:52 pm)Randy Carson Wrote: (June 6, 2015 at 2:53 pm)pocaracas Wrote: Would you believe if I told you that you failed to answer the question?
What is "the grace of god"?
Maybe I should remind you that, as far I am concerned, there might as well be no god at all.
Google an article entitled, Grace: What It Is and What It Does
I'm flabbergasted.... nothing about grace and truth in this piece you cited: http://www.catholic.com/tracts/grace-wha...at-it-does.
How does that grace give you some insight into what is true?
Actually, my question was "how would you know that what a particular religion claims is the truth?"
And you give me the presupposition that your religion's claims are representative of reality.
No, my question comes before the presupposition of the religion... How can you be sure that one of them is true?
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RE: Ask a Catholic
June 6, 2015 at 5:50 pm
(June 6, 2015 at 5:22 pm)Randy Carson Wrote: (June 6, 2015 at 5:19 pm)rexbeccarox Wrote: From your other thread:
"There are no atheists in foxholes."
https://atheistforums.org/post-959270.html#pid959270
Before we go too far with this, please look of the definition of "aphorism" (which I provided in my post).
Oh, my bad; I should have quoted the whole thing:
" There are no atheists in foxholes. When you think you are about to die, you'll be ready to get serious with God," in response to Esq, who's made it abundantly clear he and his wife have been in a metaphorical "foxhole", and did not "get serious with God". Sorry; that was not an aphorism. You have made it perfectly clear you stand by that assertion.
Also, you might be the single most condescending douche who has ever made an ass of himself in my time on this forum.
Nolite te bastardes carborundorum.
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RE: Ask a Catholic
June 6, 2015 at 5:53 pm
(This post was last modified: June 6, 2015 at 5:56 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Quote:Some are living immorally and don't want to give up the sex, drugs, pornography
And you're just in christianity for the cookie at the end. While your summary isn't indicative of atheists in reality, it is indicative regarding your suspicions of others....and we form those suspicions......by reference to ourselves.
The question becomes...why do you want to live immorally, /w the sex and the drugs and the pron so badly...that you can imagine that desire as having some ability to modify a persons status of belief? You seem to think that a person could want to smoke a bowl -sooooo much-...that it would actually turn them into atheists......lol......buddy, that can only tell us about you...not atheists, or atheism.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Ask a Catholic
June 6, 2015 at 5:55 pm
(This post was last modified: June 6, 2015 at 6:03 pm by Randy Carson.)
(June 6, 2015 at 5:32 pm)pocaracas Wrote: (June 6, 2015 at 4:52 pm)Randy Carson Wrote: Google an article entitled, Grace: What It Is and What It Does
I'm flabbergasted.... nothing about grace and truth in this piece you cited: http://www.catholic.com/tracts/grace-wha...at-it-does.
How does that grace give you some insight into what is true?
Actually, my question was "how would you know that what a particular religion claims is the truth?"
And you give me the presupposition that your religion's claims are representative of reality.
No, my question comes before the presupposition of the religion... How can you be sure that one of them is true?
And I said I know this by God's grace. But reason/logic and revelation play a role, too. Everyone may look at creation and discern God's handiwork - though not all do, of course.
I'd have to think about how revelation and grace are intertwined...
Any how, I thought the article was pretty clear on grace, but perhaps that's because I'm more familiar with the terminology.
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
GRACE: The free and undeserved gift that God gives to us to respond to our vocation and to become his adopted children. As sanctifying grace, God shares his divine life and friendship with us in a habitual gift, a stable and supernatural disposition that enables the soul to live with God, to act by his love. As actual grace, God give us the help to conform our lives to his will. Sacramental grace and special graces (charisms, the grace of state in life) are gifts of the Holy Spirit to help us live out our Christian vocation.
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