Gotta go with "more" violent.  Whatever the teachings may be that prompt some muslims video tape the beheading of infidels have got to be pretty violent.

The real question is how much violence is encouraged in the current most popular oral myths. That's all that matters when it comes down to it. Oral myth beats the book every time, the book wouldn't even be anything without it.

For example, for every Christians who think the bible says homosexuality is a sin, get them to tell you where. Whoops, it doesn't say that. But it matters not, because the oral myth says the bible does say it. To understand why it doesn't say that requires knowing the difference between sexual orientation and sexual intercourse however, which it has become clear not everybody does.

I agree Rob - If you want to hate on gays you just need Leviticus, but by coherence if you support that you should also support slavery because it's also on Leviticus. most Christians don't read the full bible, they just listen to what their pastor/priest says or if they don't go to church - What their parents say.

In doctrine alone, exactly the same. Save for some difference in core belief (important prophets, holy trinity or one God, etc etc) Christianity and Islam are basically the same religion. They promote the same values and Basic messages. Both promote misogynistic patriarchy and are obsessed with women and sex (or suppression of it), both have historically condones slavery and war on "heretics", both promote the idea of spreading the word of the religion to non-believers. Medieval Europe was frighteningly similar to the modern Middle East, they are the same culture.

The only reason Christianity is in soup kitchens instead of inquisition courts today is because secularism has stripped away its power. This hasn't happened with Islam.

I also think its irrelevant what the Bible or the Quran teach. You can argue that the Quran is not misogynistic until the cows come home, it doesnt change the fact that, under "Islamic Law", women in Iran have acid thrown in their faces for being improperly veiled.

"But Iran isn't real Islam" ok why you telling me? I would say go tell Khamenei that. But guess what if you try telling him that he is un-Islamic, you'll be the one hung in central Tehran on charges of blasphemy.

Sorry for double posting btw I'm on my phone and this forum really isnt mobile friendly at all.

I think it is misleading to talk about violent depictions in any holy book. The issue of violence is evolutionary and every religion, even the ones we currently perceive as docile is a time frame issue. There has never been in our species history an entirely violence free world. Every religion should be treated like a volcano. Sure they are dormant most of the time but everyone has the potential to explode. Some are simply more active than others currently.

The west simply has had a longer history of a secular leash on religion. Remove our secular law, it would not take long for Christianity to regress back into its prior barbaric behavior.

Not even the religions of Asia or the Orient should be given a pass. The Terracotta Warriors were ruled by very superstitious religious leaders. Po Pot's personal beliefs aside still ruled an army and over a population with their own religions and superstitions. 

The better argument isn't which has more violence in it, but argue that holy books or religions are not the source of our species morality. 

That last point is the big one. It's so glaringly obvious to anyone not invested in a religion, I wish there was a way to make it clear to those under its spell. As if 40,000 schisms wasn't enough to make the point for us.

(June 7, 2015 at 9:27 am)Yeauxleaux Wrote: In doctrine alone, exactly the same. Save for some difference in core belief (important prophets, holy trinity or one God, etc etc) Christianity and Islam are basically the same religion. They promote the same values and Basic messages. Both promote misogynistic patriarchy and are obsessed with women and sex (or suppression of it), both have historically condones slavery and war on "heretics", both promote the idea of spreading the word of the religion to non-believers. Medieval Europe was frighteningly similar to the modern Middle East, they are the same culture.

The only reason Christianity is in soup kitchens instead of inquisition courts today is because secularism has stripped away its power. This hasn't happened with Islam.

I think the middle east talk is confusing because it is a so vast place. Israel is not the same as Palestine and Palestine is not the same as Saudi, etc. If you mean Saudi, yeah I agree - I would add that secularism itself was supported by Christians and some religious people; in fact, in theory secularism was forced and implemented after the French revolution during a time when the majority of people were still Christian.

Quote:I also think its irrelevant what the Bible or the Quran teach. You can argue that the Quran is not misogynistic until the cows come home, it doesnt change the fact that, under "Islamic Law", women in Iran have acid thrown in their faces for being improperly veiled.


"But Iran isn't real Islam" ok why you telling me? I would say go tell Khamenei that. But guess what if you try telling him that he is un-Islamic, you'll be the one hung in central Tehran on charges of blasphemy.

Sorry for double posting btw I'm on my phone and this forum really isnt mobile friendly at all.

I agree with everything posted, but it goes both ways - Like Reza Aslan said, anyone who calls himself X is X and we should believe them. Feminist, queer lesbian Muslims are real Muslims, are so are oppressive wealthy sexist men. Btw, correct me if I'm wrong but I believe some veils like the Burqa are actually illegal in Iran (I have no problem with hijabs at all)

I agree with that, many many Christians (and Muslims) are and have historically been secularists. Today there is a a growing sentiment towards secularism and resisting Islamism among young people in the middle east. Unfortunately we never hear about this because the faux-left in the west are too busy defending Islam to notice so many Muslims are being hurt by it.

I don't think Iran has the burqa, but they do have another headscarf called the chador, that doesn't cover the face but is still very modest. There are severe consequences for Iranian women that don't cover "enough" though.

Also I know you can have Muslim feminists and gay Muslims, but its the Islamist far right who deny they are real Muslims and charge them with blasphemy. they are the ones with power too, so they can dictate this.

I wonder what you guys think about the importance of the founder of the religion though? For example, Christianity says that Jesus was this perfect God/Man and we should follow his example. Now I don't think that the Jesus Character was or said anything really special, but nor did he say anything particularly terrible.

On the other hand Islam says that Muhammad was a sinless prophet who's example should be followed. Now Muhammad personally killed people, owned slaves, married a 9 year old, started war, etc etc.

So when you have that as your example, I think it's easy for a group like Isis to say 'Hey, we are just acting the way Muhammad would have' where it would be hard for a similar Christian group to say the same thing.