(June 28, 2015 at 12:40 pm)Randy Carson Wrote:

(June 28, 2015 at 12:36 pm)SteelCurtain Wrote: Well, since your idea of Sodom of Gomorrah is a place where people make less judgements about the things others do privately, and we have a more secular society, then I hope not.

Mike-

Why did God destroy S&G?

Such an event never happened. People don't turn into salt pillars and angels don't exist.

But, since we're speaking as if your fairy tale has some merit, we'll just assume we both are familiar with the story. We're not doing a Sunday School thing here, Randy, and I'll not give merit to your condescending tone as you quiz me on Bible stories.

Please, get over yourself. Make your point as if the Bible is literal truth.

(June 28, 2015 at 12:36 pm)Randy Carson Wrote:

(June 28, 2015 at 12:34 pm)IATIA Wrote: What exactly were the sins of "Sodom and Gomorrah"?

What do the scriptures say? How do you read it?

Ezekiel 16:49
Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.

And that required the complete destruction of the city, including the children?

(June 28, 2015 at 11:06 am)Randy Carson Wrote:

(June 28, 2015 at 9:59 am)PiousPaladin Wrote: Christianity has only grown in numbers since its founding, God also promised that the Gates of Hell would not prevail over his Church. The word of God is not to be doubted and his promise is true.

I am not a Catholic because it feels good. God calls us to be loyal not happy. Obedience to his will will lead to eternal salvation and joy in his presence, but in this life such base concerns as pleasure are irrelevant.

If I may offer a slight correct: God calls us to be holy not happy.

Carry on.

The very definition of a Holy individual is one who is in full submission and union to the will of God. Loyalty to his will you might say.

What he said is fine, but he is using a rather older theological vocabulary compared modern day Catholics. That shouldn't be any great surprise though, the SSPX doesn't use any theological resources, missals or breviaries printed after Vatican II so they've missed out on a fair deal of language shifts to make terms more relatable to Protestants as a part of ecumenicalism.

Have to say I am a bit suprised by this SSPX/Catholic tag team though

(June 28, 2015 at 12:23 pm)Randy Carson Wrote:

(June 28, 2015 at 12:14 pm)Mr.wizard Wrote: Again your doing what gods want because you want love in heaven and not hell, if he was offering neither you would not  be willing to submit to him, so it boils down to what makes you happy. You think your options are profound love in heaven or eternal torture in hell, your not picking heaven because you love god, your picking heaven because its preferable to hell.

There are two levels:

Level 1: Fear of hell/desire for heaven.
Of course we fear hell and desire heaven. That is the only sane response if heaven and hell are real.

Level 2: Love of God.
We desire to do whatever pleases God purely out of love for Him. This level is not concerned with self (heaven and hell).

Level 1 is less mature; level 2 is more mature. Similarly, our love for a spouse can be more or less mature.

Quote:Also the fact that you think an entity is showing you profound love by giving you a choice between eternal worship or eternal torture, tells me you don't care who this entity is and your really only concerned with where your ass ends up.

Not exactly. God has shown profound love for me by dying on a cross which makes it possible for me to choose.

Bullshit that's the only sane response, If the god of the bible was real I would gladly burn in hell rather than worship that monster.

Bullshit again, if god told you to submit your will but he was sending you to hell anyway, would you do it out of love? If not then clearly there is a concern for ones self. If yes well then your an idiot for loving a monster.

Saying that god died for you is ridiculous all by it self, but I wont get into that. Why did he die on the cross, to save you from hell, a place he created, a place he sends people. Your saying god gave you two choices, submit your will to him (slavery) or burn in hell and then your saying he loves you because you picked slavery over torture.

(June 28, 2015 at 12:34 pm)Neimenovic Wrote:

(June 28, 2015 at 12:27 pm)IATIA Wrote: So a battered spouse is level one.  "Please don't beat me again. I love you!"

That is the real issue with your "loving and merciful god".

I will never be able to understand that deep rooted desire to be a slave. Even if this 'god' was loving and merciful-which he clearly isn't.

We are free in the light of God, it is you who are a slave to the Prince of Lies unless you renounce your pride and repent.

Keep the proselytization down. We have no interest in that here.

(June 28, 2015 at 12:34 pm)Nope Wrote: I have never understood the 'written on your heart' metaphor. Heart is a metaphor for your emotions, right? Does that mean that the laws are written in your emotional reactions?

Well I think  you just figured out the problem of why not everyone knows gods love. He wrote it on the heart which just pumps blood, when he should of wrote it on our brains. He did have a lot going on with his grueling training program of making people rape and enslave each other until they figured out it was wrong.

(June 28, 2015 at 11:40 am)IATIA Wrote:

(June 28, 2015 at 11:34 am)Randy Carson Wrote: Christians aren't any different from anyone else in that regard, are they?

If that were where it stopped, but it does not.  Christians feel it is their duty and mission to institute laws. policies, etc, that undermine what "feels good" for me.  That is the issue.  Keep it in your own backyard and we are just fine with whatever flavour kool-aid you prefer.

We simply cannot do that, for your own sake and for our own. We cannot allow you to damn yourselves without a fight, and even if we were your bad example is the sin of scandal, your very actions are a temptation for others to emulate.

That cannot be tolerated, it must be stopped. In ages past we could simply shun you from polite society if you scandalized the faithful, now in this dark age we must return to the methods of the Church Fathers and the Doctors of the Church.

(June 28, 2015 at 12:52 pm)Mr.wizard Wrote:

(June 28, 2015 at 12:34 pm)Nope Wrote: I have never understood the 'written on your heart' metaphor. Heart is a metaphor for your emotions, right? Does that mean that the laws are written in your emotional reactions?

Well I think  you just figured out the problem of why not everyone knows gods love. He wrote it on the heart which just pumps blood, when he should of wrote it on our brains. He did have a lot going on with his grueling training program of making people rape and enslave each other until they figured out it was wrong.

I guess god is not very smart.

(June 28, 2015 at 11:13 am)Mr.wizard Wrote:

(June 28, 2015 at 9:59 am)PiousPaladin Wrote: Christianity has only grown in numbers since its founding, God also promised that the Gates of Hell would not prevail over his Church. The word of God is not to be doubted and his promise is true.

I am not a Catholic because it feels good. God calls us to be loyal not happy. Obedience to his will will lead to eternal salvation and joy in his presence, but in this life such base concerns as pleasure are irrelevant.

What if submitting to gods will didn't lead to eternal salvation? Your saying you submit to his will because your going to get a favorable reward in the end, that really is the same as saying your catholic because it makes you feel good. Lets face it if gods message was "do what I say, because being commanded by me is its on reward." the catholic faith would not have that many followers, they are offering eternal life, which makes people feel good. Also why do we need salvation? What are we being saved from? Oh ya, its god offering us salvation from his own wrath, how loving he is indeed.

We are being saved from our own sinfulness. God is a God of Mercy and Love, but also Justice. All evil must be punished, no blemish can be suffered in the Kingdom of Heaven.