Haha, I can conceive of a God of whatever power you want. Even contradictory powers. I can still conceive of it.

It's funny that it's still so insignificant I don't even notice it though.

(July 1, 2015 at 5:37 am)robvalue Wrote: I'm wondering if the people who wrote and edited the bible simply didn't care about contradictions.

I think that it's a product of the times. When everything was hand-written, how often were you likely to make revisions? If other religious mythology was equally spotty, did it even matter? If very few people were able to read, then the opportunity to pore over the works to find inconsistencies was rare. There are probably a few other factors that make it so that the book can be rife with inconsistencies and nonetheless be considered a legitimate religious tome, inspired by god. The more creative apologetics have to be applied in later times, when everyone has access to the book and criticism can easily reach anyone --a process that has become easier and easier at the same time that religious power has eased sufficiently to reduce the risk of being critical (unless you decide to draw Mohammad, anyway).

(July 1, 2015 at 7:19 am)Tonus Wrote: If other religious mythology was equally spotty, did it even matter?  If very few people were able to read, then the opportunity to pore over the works to find inconsistencies was rare.

In the Middle Ages laymen weren't even allowed to possess a complete transcript of the bible. Says something about their own trust in the value of their holy book.

(July 1, 2015 at 5:13 am)Neimenovic Wrote:

(June 30, 2015 at 7:15 pm)Randy Carson Wrote: Is that supposed to be an argument against the Trinity?

If so, you know the thread where we can discuss it more civilly.

I can't imagine how saying I'm a sinner in need of a savior-whether it apples to everyone or not-is more civil. It kills my itch for debate and is very insulting.

That is the offense of the gospel, N.

It doesn't make it any less true just because we take offense at hearing it.

(July 1, 2015 at 5:51 am)Pandæmonium Wrote:

(June 30, 2015 at 7:38 pm)Randy Carson Wrote: Nor is it terribly fun when small-minded people cannot conceive of a BIG God who can do whatever He wants whenever He wants.

I can't quite work out if you think it's a good thing that you're re-hasing an argument a 3 year old might come out with in the playground or not?

"Yeah well my dad is bigger than your dad!"

How puerile. Fascinating how the theist mind works.

EXPELLIARMUS!

It's not that so much as it is trying to get folks who are willing to assume that science can do just about anything (I'm using a wee bit of hyperbole here) to consider that the God who created everything that science can study (and more!) can do even more.

(July 1, 2015 at 5:53 am)robvalue Wrote: Haha, I can conceive of a God of whatever power you want. Even contradictory powers. I can still conceive of it.

It's funny that it's still so insignificant I don't even notice it though.

That puts you a step or two ahead of those who apparently cannot.

Just remember, however, a God with contradictory "powers" cannot exist.

(July 1, 2015 at 7:54 am)Randy Carson Wrote:

(July 1, 2015 at 5:13 am)Neimenovic Wrote: I can't imagine how saying I'm a sinner in need of a savior-whether it apples to everyone or not-is more civil. It kills my itch for debate and is very insulting.

That is the offense of the gospel, N.

It doesn't make it any less true just because we take offense at hearing it.

No, your gaping lack of supporting evidence makes it less true. And hearing it all over again isn't good for my mental health, so I'll ignore you whenever you say it.

(July 1, 2015 at 8:00 am)Randy Carson Wrote:

(July 1, 2015 at 5:51 am)Pandæmonium Wrote: I can't quite work out if you think it's a good thing that you're re-hasing an argument a 3 year old might come out with in the playground or not?

"Yeah well my dad is bigger than your dad!"

How puerile. Fascinating how the theist mind works.

EXPELLIARMUS!

It's not that so much as it is trying to get folks who are willing to assume that science can do just about anything (I'm using a wee bit of hyperbole here) to consider that the God who created everything that science can study (and more!) can do even more.

i.e. magic.

Yeah we get it. "Everything you can do I can do better" and all that.

Your imagination doesn't wash with those who can't experience or believe your imagination, Randy. I thought this would have been obvious by now no? There is no competition between 'science' and 'god'. One is a 'thing', a tool we use to discover things we don't currently know, whilst the latter is a get of of jail clause to explain things away that we can't be bothered to explore.

Come on, you're supposed to hit back with a spell. Preferably one with nice colours.

"Whatever happens or has happened, God did it."

"Whatever happens or has happened, my magic 8 ball did it."

This is why unfalsifiable claims are useless. Each is "as good" as each other, none can be tested or verified, and all amount to a pointless, undemonstrated and unnecessary extra assumption.

Make your claim falsifiable or get it out of my face.

(July 1, 2015 at 8:14 am)robvalue Wrote: "Whatever happens or has happened, my magic 8 ball did it."