(July 19, 2015 at 1:51 am)Minimalist Wrote: How do you know that the author of that drivel wasn't psychotic?

Which author of which drivel?  There are too many choices in this thread to know what you are referring to.  And there is more than one who I have no reason to believe is not the writing of a psychotic.

(July 18, 2015 at 5:00 pm)Kaninchen Wrote:

(July 17, 2015 at 9:55 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: Huh? Are you sure you're Jewish?

The first sacrifice offered for sin was in the book of Genesis, from your own Torah....

So no, Christianity didn't invent anything, it just points to Jesus Christ as the ultimate sacrifice for sin.

I'm afraid you will have to explain to me how your post relates to my original before I'll be able to comment.

You made the comment:

(July 17, 2015 at 1:16 pm)Kaninchen Wrote: The triumph of Christianity was to invent an illness ("You're all doomed!") and announce itself as the only cure.

Your religious views state you're Jewish.
I'm also making the assumption that by "illness" you're speaking of sin, if not then my bad, that's the only thing that makes sense.

My point was Christianity didn't invent sin, the Jews understood that concept long before Christianity came along.

(July 19, 2015 at 3:49 pm)Huggy74 Wrote:

(July 18, 2015 at 5:00 pm)Kaninchen Wrote: I'm afraid you will have to explain to me how your post relates to my original before I'll be able to comment.

You made the comment:

(July 17, 2015 at 1:16 pm)Kaninchen Wrote: The triumph of Christianity was to invent an illness ("You're all doomed!") and announce itself as the only cure.

Your religious views state you're Jewish.
I'm also making the assumption that by "illness" you're speaking of sin, if not then my bad, that's the only thing that makes sense.

My point was Christianity didn't invent sin, the Jews understood that concept long before Christianity came along.

(July 19, 2015 at 4:57 pm)Kaninchen Wrote: My point was Christianity didn't invent sin, the Jews understood that concept long before Christianity came along.

As did the Egyptians, who predate judaism for quite a bit. They also had the final judgment with Osiris presiding.

What's so original about sin? It's just another concept to enforce a desired behavior.

(July 19, 2015 at 4:57 pm)Kaninchen Wrote:

(July 19, 2015 at 3:49 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: You made the comment:

Your religious views state you're Jewish.
I'm also making the assumption that by "illness" you're speaking of sin, if not then my bad, that's the only thing that makes sense.

My point was Christianity didn't invent sin, the Jews understood that concept long before Christianity came along.

Ah, you see the reason for the brackets after 'illness' was to indicate the nature of the 'illness' (ie 'doom' - if I'd meant 'sin', I'd have said 'sin').  There is no equivalent in Judaism to the Christian 'original sin, damnation, salvation' system.

(July 17, 2015 at 1:10 pm)Whateverist the White Wrote: Sorry Cath-y but I've been reading this in your signature line.  I'm conflicted because, on the one hand, I like the current pope for his inclusiveness and reasonableness.  On the other hand being "redeemed" is right up there with being "prayed for".  Neither does me any discernable good.  I just hear them as people wishing me well.  Not really sure what else to do with it.

Still if I was a believer an inclusive god would be less of an embarrassment than a nit picky one.  That is all.

No problem!

When the Pope said this, it wasn't meant to be insulting. It just meant that we all have a shot. Some Christians think that being non Christian (much less atheist) will automatically disqualify you from Heaven.

The pope, while not explicitly saying either or,** was still sending out a message of hope and calling everyone to come together and do good. Live by the virtues of honesty, generosity, chastity, kindness, forgiveness, etc.

I'm sorry if it offended you, though. I hope you know I think very highly of you and others on this forum!  

**(because quite frankly none of us knows, though I think he made it clear he believes atheists can go to heaven, and I agree with him)

Trouble, Cath, is that I -am- living by those virtues when I stand against the articles of your faith...which seems to be a no-no. You talk about us "having a shot" like that would be a good thing......but I don't think you've considered that from very many angles.

(July 19, 2015 at 6:43 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(July 17, 2015 at 1:10 pm)Whateverist the White Wrote: Sorry Cath-y but I've been reading this in your signature line.  I'm conflicted because, on the one hand, I like the current pope for his inclusiveness and reasonableness.  On the other hand being "redeemed" is right up there with being "prayed for".  Neither does me any discernable good.  I just hear them as people wishing me well.  Not really sure what else to do with it.

Still if I was a believer an inclusive god would be less of an embarrassment than a nit picky one.  That is all.

No problem!

When the Pope said this, it wasn't meant to be insulting.

I don't think he meant it to be insulting at all. I'm sure he meant it as kindness. (Some would say strategically, but I'm not much into conspiracy theories.)

(July 19, 2015 at 6:43 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: It just meant that we all have a shot. Some Christians think that being non Christian (much less atheist) will automatically disqualify you from Heaven.

While it is nice that the pope is willing to consider the possibility that we heathen will be sent to the nice imaginary place instead of the bad imaginary place, it isn't really of much consequence if one sees them both as imaginary.

(July 19, 2015 at 6:43 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: The pope, while not explicitly saying either or,** was still sending out a message of hope and calling everyone to come together and do good. Live by the virtues of honesty, generosity, chastity, kindness, forgiveness, etc.

That is one thing about atheists which seems to be fairly pronounced, our indifference to being herded, at least in my experience here. The shepherd and flock analogy breaks down pretty quick without religion to keep it going.

(July 19, 2015 at 6:43 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I'm sorry if it offended you, though. I hope you know I think very highly of you and others on this forum!  

**(because quite frankly none of us knows, though I think he made it clear he believes atheists can go to heaven, and I agree with him)

You've never offended me but there have been more than one point where I feared I might offend you. So far, so good. I hope you will take it as a sign of respect that I won't refrain from saying that which might challenge or unsettle you. In relationships generally it is best to put it all out there early and often, let the other person decide if the fit is right. The many kudos you get for your exemplary interaction with atheists will mean more (to us) if it is the light of seeing us clearly for what we are.

(July 19, 2015 at 10:11 pm)Whateverist the White Wrote:

(July 19, 2015 at 6:43 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: The pope, while not explicitly saying either or,** was still sending out a message of hope and calling everyone to come together and do good. Live by the virtues of honesty, generosity, chastity, kindness, forgiveness, etc.

That is one thing about atheists which seems to be fairly pronounced, our indifference to being herded, at least in my experience here.  The shepherd and flock analogy breaks down pretty quick without religion to keep it going. 

If you forget about the fact that he's pope, and just see him as a leader to over a billion people around the world... don't you think someone in a leadership role, calling on people to do good, is a positive thing?

For example, if President Obama (assuming you like him) made a speech about working together to do good for our country, wouldn't you like that? Do you think the fact that is was the pope doing it, makes you like it less?

(July 19, 2015 at 10:11 pm)Whateverist the White Wrote: You've never offended me but there have been more than one point where I feared I might offend you.  So far, so good.  I hope you will take it as a sign of respect that I won't refrain from saying that which might challenge or unsettle you.  In relationships generally it is best to put it all out there early and often, let the other person decide if the fit is right.  The many kudos you get for your exemplary interaction with atheists will mean more (to us) if it is the light of seeing us clearly for what we are.

Thank you for your kind words!

It's the fact that you actually care enough to worry about offending me, that solidifies the fact that nothing you say to me will offend me lol.

I don't know if that made any sense to you.

But basically, it's not the challenge of my beliefs itself that offends me, it's when someone doesn't care (which is made clear by the way they talk, etc). So please feel free to talk to me openly!