Miracle

[Longhorn]

Where's the germ theory then?

[robvalue]

Me saying I wouldn't worship him if he is real is proof I can't disprove him? Comprehension problem. I'm saying I couldn't care less if he is real or not, because he's a bastard. I'll carry on screeching all day. He's welcome to actually do something about it.

Here's my final question to you Harris before I sign off:

Is Allah surprised you have failed to convince us of anything, or did he already know you would fail?

[Cyberman]

Yes, the arrogance is strong with this one.

[bennyboy]

See! You are shrieking even louder and that is an evident proof that you are helpless and cannot prove that people had put those scientific facts in Quran.

I had given only nine of them however; there are plenty of amazing things in Quran, which I have not yet touched.

There are plenty of amazing things in the Lord of the Rings, which we have not yet touched.

“There is only one Lord of the Ring, only one who can bend it to his will. And he does not share power.”
– Gandalf

So true, so true. You did not know that until you read LotR, so LotR is a miracle.

“Moonlight drowns out all but the brightest stars.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings

This passage demonstrates a knowledge of vision and neurology that Tolkien couldn't possibly have had access to. Therefore, LotR is a miracle.

“There is nothing like looking, if you want to find something. You certainly usually find something, if you look, but it is not always quite the something you were after.”
– Thorin II Oakenshield in The Hobbit, Over Hill And Under Hill

Thorin lived during the 2700-2900s of the Third Age, and yet he accurately describes the fundamental principle of modern science. Therefore, LotR is a miracle.

“It is useless to meet revenge with revenge: it will heal nothing.”
– Frodo in The Return of the King, The Scouring of the Shire

Despite living in an alternate family universe, Frodo accurately recounts one of the religious principle of Jesus. Therefore, LotR is a miracle.

[robvalue]

LOTR doesn't repeat parts of itself for no reason and contradict the story from one page to the next either. Even better!

[bennyboy]

LOTR doesn't repeat parts of itself for no reason and contradict the story from one page to the next either. Even better!

Yes, and LotR has almost exclusively male characters, meaning it is pretty sexist, so it should be an easy transitional text for muslims, who are also deeply sexist.

[Harris]

Numbness is a feeling that can occur when someone receives 3rd and 4th degree burns. It's a feeling brought on by a physical injury, it's not like a scientific discovery.

You saying people discovered numbness caused by burns in the 14th century is like saying the blister was discovered in the 2nd century BC because that's when someone first wrote about it.

I assume ancient people knew that being hit in the groin with a rock hurts, that they knew that scabs cause skin to go numb, they knew fire caused hair to singe, I might not be able to google search any of these things and find them but I assume ancient people knew of them because they're feelings related to what an ancient person would almost certainly have experienced.

I have absolutely no historical proof whatsoever that ancient man knew scabs caused skin to go numb, but it's completely logical for me to assume they did know since they would have experienced scabbed skin, they would have experienced 4th degree burns.

Do you think people were not using water before they had discovered the contents, properties, and different scientific uses of water? For sure, they were using water like any other living being but without knowing many obvious facts about it.

Do you think all the discoveries are popping out from nowhere? Of course not. Nature is complete. If people do not have idea about certain things in nature that means they are not mature to understand them. Even today, perhaps people are watching directly to some of natures undiscovered phenomena but because they have no understanding of them, therefore they do not notice. Perhaps people in future would look at CANCER and AIDS like you are now looking at blisters and scabs today. So do not undermine early people for whom blisters and scabs had different meaning, which was not as much enriched as it is today.

It's the same principle.

You're citing as proof that NO ONE in ancient times knew of numbness caused by burns by telling me 6 ancient philosophers never wrote about it.

I am saying “NO ONE in ancient times knew of numbness caused by burns” and for evidence I had given example of few ancient philosophers because there is no need of a huge list of references to convey a simple idea. Those philosophers were the intellectual scholars who in fact were the representatives of intellectual eminence of their people.

By your logic I can prove no one in ancient times knew that being hit by a piece of wood in the groin hurts unless you can provide me an ancient historical statement about being hit by a piece of wood in the groin, find me one statement.

“And when Abner was returned to Hebron, Joab took him aside into the midst of the gate to speak with him quietly, and SMOTE HIM THERE IN THE GROIN, THAT HE DIED, for the blood of Asahel his brother.”
Verse 28
2 Samuel − Chapter 3
Holy Neviim − Book 4

Holy Neviim is considered as more than two thousand years old. If you want, I can give more verses that are similar.

And I can prove no one in ancient times knew that scabs are numb, unless you can provide one ancient source.

You are truthful. It is really hard to find any ancient statement such as “scabs are numb.” This is yet another proof that people were not aware of numbness.

You are trying to implement your present world knowledge in the ancient world. This is your problem. To you scab numbness is so common that your mind is not digesting a point that people up until fifteenth century were ignorant of numbness.

For example, maybe you know that some people are experiencing synaesthesia. There are few attempts by the Specialists of Human Perception who proposed some hypothesis and theories to explain how synaesthesia happens but in reality, there is no one in today’s world who has any idea, why and how it is happening.

The same way people in the past were looking right into the scabs and blisters but had little idea about proper mechanism of their happenings. While experiencing scabs and blisters they were literally ignorant of even the most common effects caused by those because no one was thoughtful about them in a scientific sense and no one was interested in observing their after effects.

I'm not distorting anything, you said that
Quote:FRESH SKIN is a must condition to feel the burning
Which contradicts

Quote:internal organs too which are sensitive to heat.

According to you the verse in the quran means that skin is needed to feel the pain of burning, that is why it is miraculous. Then I tell you that information is wrong because other organs can feel heat and you proclaim another miracle in another verse?

If someone is being roasted alive and their skin burns away and then the heat reaches their internal organs they will still feel pain, so god does not need to replace their skin in order for them to still feel the pain of burning.

Fresh skin is not a must condition in order to feel burning, you said so yourself.

Whether you have confusing thoughts or you are deliberately trying to give wrong meanings to my writings. In both cases, you are writing ambiguous things.

You have started this discussion from the topic of skin but soon after that, you have diverted it to the topic of internal organs. As there are certain internal organs, which indeed sense the heat, therefore I did not mind to go with you in that direction.

I had given you a precise understanding that if skin would not let fire to pass through then that fire would not affect the internal organs. The only way to affect the internal organs (in case if the skin downright barricade fire from penetrating) is the oral intake of hot stuff and correspondingly I had given the relevant verses that confirmed this fact.

Based on “you mean that” and “I mean this” you cannot change any fact.

Skin is the mean of outrageous pain because it is the largest organ that gives the burning sensation.

In addition to burning their skins, Quran also added that arrogant people would be forced to eat and drink burning hot stuff so it would double that atrocious nasty pain of burning.

Only think for a moment what if all those horrific punishments are in fact real and there will be no death to escape all those unspeakable experiences.

“On the Day that the enemies of Allah will be gathered together to the Fire, they will be marched in ranks.

At length, when they reach the (Fire), their hearing, their sight, and their skins will bear witness against them, as to (all) their deeds.

They will say to their skins: "Why bear ye witness against us?" They will say: "(Allah) hath given us speech,- (He) Who giveth speech to everything: He created you for the first time, and unto Him were ye to return.

"Ye did not seek to hide yourselves, lest your hearing, your sight, and your skins should bear witness against you! But ye did think that Allah knew not many of the things that ye used to do!

"But this thought of yours which ye did entertain concerning your Lord, hath brought you to destruction, and (now) have ye become of those utterly lost!"

If, then, they have patience, the Fire will be a home for them! and if they beg to be received into favour, into favour will they not (then) be received.”
Fush Shilat (41)
-Verses 19 – 24-

Where's the germ theory then?

REPEATING AGAIN!

The purpose of Quran is to give warnings to unbelievers who transgress the natural limits by intention and encourage the believers who live unpretentious life for the pleasure of God.

Quran is not a book of Science. By giving scientific facts, Quran manifest that it is not a work of human. Quran is not determine to give education of science, history, philosophy, literature, etc. It shows ways how to live a moral life.

Me saying I wouldn't worship him if he is real is proof I can't disprove him? Comprehension problem. I'm saying I couldn't care less if he is real or not, because he's a bastard. I'll carry on screeching all day. He's welcome to actually do something about it.

Here's my final question to you Harris before I sign off:

Is Allah surprised you have failed to convince us of anything, or did he already know you would fail?

Who said I am trying to convince you (Mr ROBVALUE). In last couple of responses, I was only showing that your intellectual limit is “FUCK” and beyond that you are “getting a feeling of numbness in your brain.”

Your above dialog is a perfect testimony to this fact.

Yes, the arrogance is strong with this one.

Respect for others is incompatible with arrogance, defamation, and ridicule. Did I ever use “FUCK, EVIL ASS, SHIT, or BASTARD” for any of you or for any of your statement (including the vulgar and arrogant ones)?

There are plenty of amazing things in the Lord of the Rings, which we have not yet touched.
Quote:“There is only one Lord of the Ring, only one who can bend it to his will. And he does not share power.”
– Gandalf
So true, so true. You did not know that until you read LotR, so LotR is a miracle.

Quote:“Moonlight drowns out all but the brightest stars.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings
This passage demonstrates a knowledge of vision and neurology that Tolkien couldn't possibly have had access to. Therefore, LotR is a miracle.

Quote:“There is nothing like looking, if you want to find something. You certainly usually find something, if you look, but it is not always quite the something you were after.”
– Thorin II Oakenshield in The Hobbit, Over Hill And Under Hill
Thorin lived during the 2700-2900s of the Third Age, and yet he accurately describes the fundamental principle of modern science. Therefore, LotR is a miracle.

Quote:“It is useless to meet revenge with revenge: it will heal nothing.”

– Frodo in The Return of the King, The Scouring of the Shire
Despite living in an alternate family universe, Frodo accurately recounts one of the religious principle of Jesus. Therefore, LotR is a miracle.

Prove Lord of the Rings REVEALED in seventh century.

[Silver]

Harris, you mother fucking dumbass, what is known as the natural world is completely different than comprehending what is the natural world.

Your fiction may dictate that the answer should be known automatically, but reality shows that finding the answer is the most rewarding experience of all.

Religion has provided zero answers in relation to reality and the natural world, yet science has provided many.

[paulpablo]

“And when Abner was returned to Hebron, Joab took him aside into the midst of the gate to speak with him quietly, and SMOTE HIM THERE IN THE GROIN, THAT HE DIED, for the blood of Asahel his brother.”
Verse 28
2 Samuel − Chapter 3
Holy Neviim − Book 4

Holy Neviim is considered as more than two thousand years old. If you want, I can give more verses that are similar.

It doesn't say he was hurt or felt pain it just says he died, and no piece of wood is mentioned.  So you still haven't proven that ancient people knew being hit in the groin with a piece of wood hurts.

[paulpablo]

Do you think people were not using water before they had discovered the contents, properties, and different scientific uses of water? For sure, they were using water like any other living being but without knowing many obvious facts about it.

Do you think all the discoveries are popping out from nowhere? Of course not. Nature is complete. If people do not have idea about certain things in nature that means they are not mature to understand them. Even today, perhaps people are watching directly to some of natures undiscovered phenomena but because they have no understanding of them, therefore they do not notice. Perhaps people in future would look at CANCER and AIDS like you are now looking at blisters and scabs today. So do not undermine early people for whom blisters and scabs had different meaning, which was not as much enriched as it is today.

I'm saying ancient people knew scabs caused numbness because 1) They experienced scabs.  2) Numbness is a lack of sensation, it's not a discovery.
The quran gives no knowledge of numbness, of sensation or of anything.  It just describes a punishment of repeated skin burning.