Angels

[TubbyTubby]

It always amazes me that there are adults that really believe in angels full stop but I suppose it goes with the territory.

[Drich]

If God is omnipresent and omnipotent  why does he have angels do anything at all? I mean what's the point?

The oh, Sh*t factor of it all.

When confronted by just a simple messenger of God all recorded examples has one fall face down in the dirt with fear and respect. The power and authority they have just second hand is enough to 1/2 to death. God Himself would take us the rest of the way unless you are already one of His. Then the holy Spirit communicates to you directly (unless you are slow or very young in the faith and God need to communicate a great deal.)

[Fidel_Castronaut]

Contradiction to an omni-faceted god. Why would a perfect being value those things? Wouldn't that make it imperfect?

No, looking at the life within himself, saying that it's good, and giving it away doesn't make him imperfect.

That's precisely what it does. Again, it's impossible to argue that it is anything but a contradiction for an omni-faceted 'thing' to 'want' to do anything. Want implies lack, and lack = not perfect.

Why would an perfect being 'want' anything at all? Want would imply that it lacks something, which again, contradicts omni-facets no?

No, it doesn't. I'ts pretty silly to say that an omni being can't actually do anything with his omnis, other wise he's not omni.  

Going around in circles. see: above. I'm not the one introducing self-defeating and contradictory logic into this. That is done 100% by those seeking to posit that an omni-thing exists. The fact that I can even posit that such contradictions exist by default means the thing they're aimed towards is not perfect, by definition, no?

Again, you can't lack or 'want' something and be perfect. In every sense of the word that's a contradiction. If you don't accept that, fine, whatever, no skin off my nose.

The issue with omni-facets is that they are, almost by default, contradictory. It is impossible to introduce omni-facets into a conversation and hold it stable, because as soon as you do so, everything, from existence, to the bible claims (or indeed any claims), contradict themselves on their own premise.

Says you. I see it differently.

You can see it however you want, doesn't make the logical inconsistencies or the contradictory nature of omni-faceted 'things' disappear.

[robvalue]

It's also omni-unable to even convince us it exists. It can't be that omni. Instead it leaves a book around which makes itself look like a completely stupid douche bag who can't even make people without them instantly doing exactly the opposite of what he wants.

[John V]

@panda: again, I think it's utterly ridiculous to say that if an omni being actually exercises its omni abilities, it is shown to not be omni after all.

[Fidel_Castronaut]

@panda: again, I think it's utterly ridiculous to say that if an omni being actually exercises its omni abilities, it is shown to not be omni after all.

That's fair enough. The main issue is that it is demonstrably impossible to even conceive of such a thing, as evidenced by our disagreement. The whole immovable object/unstoppable force idea is a good representation of this, because the omni-being would technically be both (and neither). I can't even begin to fathom that.

[John V]

That's fair enough. The main issue is that it is demonstrably impossible to even conceive of such a thing, as evidenced by our disagreement. The whole immovable object/unstoppable force idea is a good representation of this, because the omni-being would technically be both (and neither). I can't even begin to fathom that.

No, our disagreement stems from the fact that I can conceive of such a thing, but you can't.

[Fidel_Castronaut]

That's fair enough. The main issue is that it is demonstrably impossible to even conceive of such a thing, as evidenced by our disagreement. The whole immovable object/unstoppable force idea is a good representation of this, because the omni-being would technically be both (and neither). I can't even begin to fathom that.

No, our disagreement stems from the fact that I can conceive of such a thing, but you can't.

lol, no you can't. Nobody can. Case in point, reconcile the above.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

It always amazes me that there are adults that really believe in angels full stop but I suppose it goes with the territory.

Zoroastarians came up with the idea of angels.  They are an integral part of the religion.  People get their ideas about guardian angels from Zoroastarism.

[John V]

lol, no you can't. Nobody can. Case in point, reconcile the above.

Make the argument with Biblical support and I'll address it.