Was Jesus' sacrifice really a sacrifice at all?

[solja247]

Ignoring the fact it was technically god sacrificing himself to himself for the sin he himself created I'd like to know peoples opinions. If Jesus was guaranteed to live in Heaven for eternity and be the focus of billions of peoples worship and praise how is his dying on the cross a sacrifice at all? How is it relevant to the faith and how is it seen a selfless act? and as a side note how is him dying the cure for all previous and future sin?

I'd go through whatever pain you could think of if I was to then go on to live forever in the sky world with sky daddy and the praise and love of half the earth.

Thoughts?

Jesus died on the cross to save humanity, so that we would no longer be cursed under sin. As Paul says in Romans 5 says, 'For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!'
He doesnt need our praise, that is a pagan idea. As Luke 19 says ,' 37 When he came near the place where the road goes down the Mount of Olives, the whole crowd of disciples began joyfully to praise God in loud voices for all the miracles they had seen:

38 “Blessed is the king who comes in the name of the Lord!”[b]

“Peace in heaven and glory in the highest!”

39 Some of the Pharisees in the crowd said to Jesus, “Teacher, rebuke your disciples!”

40 “I tell you,” he replied, “if they keep quiet, the stones will cry out.”

The job of a Christian (early Christian) was to tell people about Jesus that is all. Not to 'save' the world (Jesus already did that)

Note: We are not going to live in the sky, we are going to have a New Earth. Read Revelation 21-22. The Capital city will be about the size of Poland! Truly incredible!

[LastPoet]

Note: We are not going to live in the sky, we are going to have a New Earth. Read Revelation 21-22. The Capital city will be about the size of Poland! Truly incredible!

Thanks for the laugh

[solja247]

Thanks for the laugh

Haha no wories. I have to admit I am a slight skeptic. Paul thought Jesus was going to come back in his lifetime and so did many other sincere Christians. It is 2010 and Jesus has not yet come? I dont know what He is waiting for? Maybe His private jet He bought off ebay has not arrived yet? :p

[Captain Scarlet]

Thanks for the laugh

Haha no wories. I have to admit I am a slight skeptic. Paul thought Jesus was going to come back in his lifetime and so did many other sincere Christians. It is 2010 and Jesus has not yet come? I dont know what He is waiting for? Maybe His private jet He bought off ebay has not arrived yet? :p

Yep thats one explanation...or maybe just maybe, like all other bronze age jewish men, he isn't coming back. Now that would be an interesting ...

[chatpilot]

Jesus' sacrifice involved more that just the physical suffering he endured. For a time he took all our sin and guilt and was separated from God as a result. That is why he cried out, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" This might not seem like much to us because we are all guilty of sin and being separated from God is normal for us but Jesus was sinless and had always enjoyed perfect fellowship with the Father so this was completely new to him. Since we have never experienced sinlessness we can't fully comprehend what Jesus would have to suffer from having out sins placed on him.

Correction: You are guilty of sin, since as an atheist the word sin does not even qualify in my view as a real word with real meaning. It is a stupid religious nuts interpretation of his own dumb ass delusions.

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solja247 wrote: Jesus died on the cross to save humanity, so that we would no longer be cursed under sin.

Okay, so who do you think put that curse of sin upon us? Let's see what that ridiculous book the bible has to say about that.
14 Then Yahweh God said to the snake, 'Because you have done this, Accursed be you of all animals wild and tame! On your belly you will go and on dust you will feed as long as you live.
15 I shall put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; it will bruise your head and you will strike its heel.'
16 To the woman he said: I shall give you intense pain in childbearing, you will give birth to your children in pain. Your yearning will be for your husband, and he will dominate you.
17 To the man he said, 'Because you listened to the voice of your wife and ate from the tree of which I had forbidden you to eat, Accursed be the soil because of you! Painfully will you get your food from it as long as you live.
18 It will yield you brambles and thistles, as you eat the produce of the land.
19 By the sweat of your face will you earn your food, until you return to the ground, as you were taken from it. For dust you are and to dust you shall return.' Genesis 3:14-19 (NJB)

It seems to me that although Adam and Eve were tricked by the snake to disobey God, it was actually God who imposed the "curse of sin" upon mankind. Now the simple solution to this was not to curse them at all, but instead now that they know good and evil instruct them on how to avoid doing evil. But your dumb ass God seems to have problems with anger management and interpersonal relationships and seems to make bone headed mistakes like this all throughout the scriptures. So much for him being perfect!

[Skipper]

Ignoring the fact it was technically god sacrificing himself to himself for the sin he himself created I'd like to know peoples opinions. If Jesus was guaranteed to live in Heaven for eternity and be the focus of billions of peoples worship and praise how is his dying on the cross a sacrifice at all? How is it relevant to the faith and how is it seen a selfless act? and as a side note how is him dying the cure for all previous and future sin?

I'd go through whatever pain you could think of if I was to then go on to live forever in the sky world with sky daddy and the praise and love of half the earth.

Thoughts?

Jesus died on the cross to save humanity, so that we would no longer be cursed under sin.

So I'm going to heaven regardless as he's already died for my sin? But that's not the case is it?! I can bet you since Christ died the word has created a billion times more "sin" than was around when Christ apparently died for it all, simply due to the amount of people there have been living since. Why hasn't he come back in a time where his miracles could be seen and documented by a wider audience? Stop talking so much crap!

[Godscreated]

Jesus' sacrifice involved more that just the physical suffering he endured. For a time he took all our sin and guilt and was separated from God as a result. That is why he cried out, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" This might not seem like much to us because we are all guilty of sin and being separated from God is normal for us but Jesus was sinless and had always enjoyed perfect fellowship with the Father so this was completely new to him. Since we have never experienced sinlessness we can't fully comprehend what Jesus would have to suffer from having out sins placed on him.

Correction: You are guilty of sin, since as an atheist the word sin does not even qualify in my view as a real word with real meaning. It is a stupid religious nuts interpretation of his own dumb ass delusions.

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solja247 wrote: Jesus died on the cross to save humanity, so that we would no longer be cursed under sin.

Okay, so who do you think put that curse of sin upon us? Let's see what that ridiculous book the bible has to say about that.
14 Then Yahweh God said to the snake, 'Because you have done this, Accursed be you of all animals wild and tame! On your belly you will go and on dust you will feed as long as you live.
15 I shall put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; it will bruise your head and you will strike its heel.'
16 To the woman he said: I shall give you intense pain in childbearing, you will give birth to your children in pain. Your yearning will be for your husband, and he will dominate you.
17 To the man he said, 'Because you listened to the voice of your wife and ate from the tree of which I had forbidden you to eat, Accursed be the soil because of you! Painfully will you get your food from it as long as you live.
18 It will yield you brambles and thistles, as you eat the produce of the land.
19 By the sweat of your face will you earn your food, until you return to the ground, as you were taken from it. For dust you are and to dust you shall return.' Genesis 3:14-19 (NJB)

It seems to me that although Adam and Eve were tricked by the snake to disobey God, it was actually God who imposed the "curse of sin" upon mankind. Now the simple solution to this was not to curse them at all, but instead now that they know good and evil instruct them on how to avoid doing evil. But your dumb ass God seems to have problems with anger management and interpersonal relationships and seems to make bone headed mistakes like this all throughout the scriptures. So much for him being perfect!

God did not impose the curse of sin on man, He allowed it to come into place just as He said it would, He said do not eat the fruit of the tree in the middle of the garden for if you do you shall surely die. They did and in more than a physical death.

[Anomalocaris]

You mean he didn't study his own intelligent design and through his omniscience foretell the arrival of sin? Very weak and careless god. Should drop and do two googleplex pushups.

[Captain Scarlet]

God did not impose the curse of sin on man, He allowed it to come into place just as He said it would, He said do not eat the fruit of the tree in the middle of the garden for if you do you shall surely die. They did and in more than a physical death.

Then he is guilty of toying with humans as he knew it would happen. It is the act of the capricious and malevolent bully. Mind you it all might be made up which might just be the simplest explanation....

[Watson]

I wonder how many round-about ways we can go over this issue before people get fed up and say 'fuck it.' You guys throw the same old anecdotes and incorrect interpretations of the matter out every time, and then shut your ears and screech 'la dee da!' every time someone tries to give you an answer. So here's a new one, though you ight now like it;

Jesus' sacrifice obviously wasn't for you in the first place, anyway. Stop worrying about it so much if you really don't care.

(Watch them spin this in 3...2...1...)