Debate me!

[theVOID]

In an effort to make better use of the debate forum, which is about as tragically impoverished as a Somali orphan, I am extending a challenge to the members here.

Proposed debate:

Is belief in god reasonable?

Anyone interested in taking me up on this please step forward

[Watson]

Darn it, if I only had more time and more reliable access to a computer than I do, I'd surely take you up on this! No matter, though; I hope you get an interesting debate out of it, as I'm probably not the guy for the job anyway.

[Cego_Colher]

No, I will not debate you! oh, that's an argument.
would you say it's not reasonable? I'll try, especially since I don't have an opinion at the moment. but I am probably not very good at debates.

I'd say it's reasonable because it can provide comfort. I mean not all gods/religions do, but I suppose a moderate amount. you know "god loves me" "he has a plan" essentially— everything will be okay. I don't know if that is reasonable. emotionally though, if they need something else to hold on to for hope.
I wouldn't say it's reasonably to believe if you fuck up and people who don't believe as you would go to a place of terrible pain after they die. That's not very hopeful.

Is it reasonable in a more scientific stance? probably not so much.

... I don't think that went very well. hopefully someone else will have something better to say.

[theVOID]

I mean reasonable as in "Governed by or being in accordance with reason or sound thinking"

So no, "This belief makes me happy" does not make said belief reasonable.

Perhaps "Is belief in God justified" would be a less ambiguous way of putting it.

Anyway Cego, i'm looking for a formal, moderated debate, they used to happen in the debate section here

[fr0d0]

"Is belief in God justified" - to whom? To you... no, to me... yes. To anyone potentially... yes. To anyone definitely... no. The crux of this question is the choice, and it therefore has to be a subsequent question to a first question of belief.

[The Omnissiunt One]

So, in other words, fr0d0, truth is relative. Either God exists, and there are good reasons for believing so, or he doesn't and there aren't.

[theVOID]

"Is belief in God justified" - to whom? To you... no, to me... yes. To anyone potentially... yes. To anyone definitely... no. The crux of this question is the choice, and it therefore has to be a subsequent question to a first question of belief.

Justified epsitemically. It's entirely impersonal.

There is no 'justified for me' or 'justified for you' any more than there is 'my logic' and 'your logic', it either is or it isn't.

Someone who argues that they have rational reasons for belief in God is essentially claiming that their belief is epistemically justified.

[fr0d0]

So, in other words, fr0d0, truth is relative. Either God exists, and there are good reasons for believing so, or he doesn't and there aren't.

That's a clever play on words but the simple truth is that we cannot know, and must choose. Believing either can be perfectly rational in my experience. Taking the stance that one isn't rational is akin to stating that you know beyond doubt what cannot reasonably be known.

@ VOID epistemic justification doesn't concern mainstream Christianity IMO.

[theVOID]

That's perfectly true fr0d0, mainstream Christianity is intellectually inert, that's why i'm not interested in debating someone who thinks god is a useful warm and fuzzy feeling, but the philosophical theists who believe they have justification.

Also, saying 'Believing either can be perfectly rational in my experience' is in contradiction to your saying that your beliefs aren't epistemically justified. Rationality, like Justification and logic is not subjective or contingent, and a Rational belief (a belief that can be shown to be based on reason and logic) is epistemically justified, it's the exact same thing.

[fr0d0]

You make the mistake VOID of trying to force Christianity to be something it isn't. Christians stand waiting for you to address their subject and you insist on talking about something else.