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RE: Abortion is love
September 10, 2015 at 12:31 pm
(September 10, 2015 at 6:21 am)robvalue Wrote: If you're part of a religion such as Christianity or Islam, then aborting your children before they are born (or killing them just after they are born) is the most loving thing you can do for them.
First of all, you eliminate the risk that they might end up in hell by failing to follow the rules correctly.
Second, they go straight to heaven without any of the pain or heartache this life brings. They begin infinite happiness right away.
And third, it's insurance against them picking the wrong religion.
Even if we pretend there is definitely a god, and it's definitely either Yahweh or Allah, that means every Christian and Muslim is taking a risk. If they don't kill their baby, it might not go to heaven by picking wrong. You may be in the wrong religion and it may copy you, or you may be in the right religion and it may stray to another.
By killing it, the God can't say it picked wrong, so must send it to heaven! Even if you've picked wrong, in which case you're going to hell regardless, you save your child the same fate.
The ultimate act of love! So how can you object, and why don't you do it? Is it because you're hedging your bets in case the whole thing is actually made up?
This has to be the sickest thing I've seen here, you need help and I advise you to run not walk to get it and may God have mercy on you. There are so many things wrong with this one has trouble trying to find a starting point, anyone who would not just suggest murder but to advocate it is sick beyond belief.
GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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RE: Abortion is love
September 10, 2015 at 1:03 pm
"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one." - George Bernard Shaw
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RE: Abortion is love
September 10, 2015 at 2:12 pm
(September 10, 2015 at 12:31 pm)Godschild Wrote: (September 10, 2015 at 6:21 am)robvalue Wrote: If you're part of a religion such as Christianity or Islam, then aborting your children before they are born (or killing them just after they are born) is the most loving thing you can do for them.
First of all, you eliminate the risk that they might end up in hell by failing to follow the rules correctly.
Second, they go straight to heaven without any of the pain or heartache this life brings. They begin infinite happiness right away.
And third, it's insurance against them picking the wrong religion.
Even if we pretend there is definitely a god, and it's definitely either Yahweh or Allah, that means every Christian and Muslim is taking a risk. If they don't kill their baby, it might not go to heaven by picking wrong. You may be in the wrong religion and it may copy you, or you may be in the right religion and it may stray to another.
By killing it, the God can't say it picked wrong, so must send it to heaven! Even if you've picked wrong, in which case you're going to hell regardless, you save your child the same fate.
The ultimate act of love! So how can you object, and why don't you do it? Is it because you're hedging your bets in case the whole thing is actually made up?
This has to be the sickest thing I've seen here, you need help and I advise you to run not walk to get it and may God have mercy on you. There are so many things wrong with this one has trouble trying to find a starting point, anyone who would not just suggest murder but to advocate it is sick beyond belief.
GC
Sick dodge, bruh
"Every luxury has a deep price. Every indulgence, a cosmic cost. Each fiber of pleasure you experience causes equivalent pain somewhere else. This is the first law of emodynamics [sic]. Joy can be neither created nor destroyed. The balance of happiness is constant.
Fact: Every time you eat a bite of cake, someone gets horsewhipped.
Facter: Every time two people kiss, an orphanage collapses.
Factest: Every time a baby is born, an innocent animal is severely mocked for its physical appearance. Don't be a pleasure hog. Your every smile is a dagger. Happiness is murder.
Vote "yes" on Proposition 1321. Think of some kids. Some kids."
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RE: Abortion is love
September 10, 2015 at 2:34 pm
Hi Rob. 
Yes, it is true that we believe Heaven is the ultimate happiness and fulfillment in the next life. But that does not mean we think this life does not matter, or that people don't have inherent rights, like the right to life, as Napo said on the first page. We believe each human life is sacred and precious and thus should be protected against having their inherent rights taken away, even if that means they would go on to a happier existence.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: Abortion is love
September 10, 2015 at 2:42 pm
(September 10, 2015 at 12:31 pm)Godschild Wrote: (September 10, 2015 at 6:21 am)robvalue Wrote: If you're part of a religion such as Christianity or Islam, then aborting your children before they are born (or killing them just after they are born) is the most loving thing you can do for them.
First of all, you eliminate the risk that they might end up in hell by failing to follow the rules correctly.
Second, they go straight to heaven without any of the pain or heartache this life brings. They begin infinite happiness right away.
And third, it's insurance against them picking the wrong religion.
Even if we pretend there is definitely a god, and it's definitely either Yahweh or Allah, that means every Christian and Muslim is taking a risk. If they don't kill their baby, it might not go to heaven by picking wrong. You may be in the wrong religion and it may copy you, or you may be in the right religion and it may stray to another.
By killing it, the God can't say it picked wrong, so must send it to heaven! Even if you've picked wrong, in which case you're going to hell regardless, you save your child the same fate.
The ultimate act of love! So how can you object, and why don't you do it? Is it because you're hedging your bets in case the whole thing is actually made up?
This has to be the sickest thing I've seen here, you need help and I advise you to run not walk to get it and may God have mercy on you. There are so many things wrong with this one has trouble trying to find a starting point, anyone who would not just suggest murder but to advocate it is sick beyond belief.
GC
What robvalue is suggesting follows logically from what many Christians claim. Many claim (contrary to the Bible) that children go to heaven if they are killed. If that were true, then killing them would be doing them a favor. It is the Christians who have the sick, twisted beliefs that entail what robvalue is suggesting. And robvalue is wanting them to think about their sick beliefs; he is not wanting people to murder their children.
Of course, the Bible clearly states that one must have faith in Jesus, and infants do not because they are incapable of thinking such things. But that is irrelevant to the idiot Christians who claim that they go to heaven. If children did go to heaven, then killing them would be doing them a favor.
"A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence."
— David Hume, An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding, Section X, Part I.
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RE: Abortion is love
September 10, 2015 at 3:31 pm
(September 10, 2015 at 12:31 pm)Godschild Wrote: (September 10, 2015 at 6:21 am)robvalue Wrote: If you're part of a religion such as Christianity or Islam, then aborting your children before they are born (or killing them just after they are born) is the most loving thing you can do for them.
First of all, you eliminate the risk that they might end up in hell by failing to follow the rules correctly.
Second, they go straight to heaven without any of the pain or heartache this life brings. They begin infinite happiness right away.
And third, it's insurance against them picking the wrong religion.
Even if we pretend there is definitely a god, and it's definitely either Yahweh or Allah, that means every Christian and Muslim is taking a risk. If they don't kill their baby, it might not go to heaven by picking wrong. You may be in the wrong religion and it may copy you, or you may be in the right religion and it may stray to another.
By killing it, the God can't say it picked wrong, so must send it to heaven! Even if you've picked wrong, in which case you're going to hell regardless, you save your child the same fate.
The ultimate act of love! So how can you object, and why don't you do it? Is it because you're hedging your bets in case the whole thing is actually made up?
This has to be the sickest thing I've seen here, you need help and I advise you to run not walk to get it and may God have mercy on you. There are so many things wrong with this one has trouble trying to find a starting point, anyone who would not just suggest murder but to advocate it is sick beyond belief.
GC
You just said bad things about him, not one answer. It looks like you are avoiding questions, are you.
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RE: Abortion is love
September 10, 2015 at 3:48 pm
(September 10, 2015 at 2:34 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Hi Rob.
Yes, it is true that we believe Heaven is the ultimate happiness and fulfillment in the next life. But that does not mean we think this life does not matter, or that people don't have inherent rights, like the right to life, as Napo said on the first page. We believe each human life is sacred and precious and thus should be protected against having their inherent rights taken away, even if that means they would go on to a happier existence.
So, you would rather they burn in hell a free person than go to heaven with some rights taken away? It seems rights violations is a small price to pay to prevent eternal punishment.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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RE: Abortion is love
September 10, 2015 at 4:42 pm
(This post was last modified: September 10, 2015 at 4:43 pm by Catholic_Lady.)
(September 10, 2015 at 3:48 pm)Faith No More Wrote: (September 10, 2015 at 2:34 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Hi Rob.
Yes, it is true that we believe Heaven is the ultimate happiness and fulfillment in the next life. But that does not mean we think this life does not matter, or that people don't have inherent rights, like the right to life, as Napo said on the first page. We believe each human life is sacred and precious and thus should be protected against having their inherent rights taken away, even if that means they would go on to a happier existence.
So, you would rather they burn in hell a free person than go to heaven with some rights taken away? It seems rights violations is a small price to pay to prevent eternal punishment.
Hell is a state of being a person chooses to be in. There's no way of knowing for sure who will or will not "be in" Hell, but even if there was, it would still be wrong to kill them while they are babies/children, 1. because they are entitled to make their own choices, and 2. because regardless of a person's fate, they are still people who have just as much right to life as anyone else.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: Abortion is love
September 10, 2015 at 4:55 pm
But if I did go around killing children, they would all fall under god's grace and go straight to heaven, no?
Once they become adults, you need them to admit their sins first before killing them to save them.
Like Mother Theresa did.
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RE: Abortion is love
September 10, 2015 at 5:23 pm
(September 10, 2015 at 4:42 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Hell is a state of being a person chooses to be in. There's no way of knowing for sure who will or will not "be in" Hell, but even if there was, it would still be wrong to kill them while they are babies/children, 1. because they are entitled to make their own choices, and 2. because regardless of a person's fate, they are still people who have just as much right to life as anyone else.
I have two points, but I'm going to just ignore the whole "choosing to be in hell" thing. That's kind of a separate topic.
1. You still haven't addressed the fact that even if someone has the right to life, violating that right is the lesser of two evils if the other choice is allowing a person to go to hell.
2. How can you put so much emphasis on this life? Our experience on Earth here wouldn't even be a nano-second compared to an eternal existence. Considering this life is so insignificant compared to the consequences of eternal judgement, it seems you should be minimizing its importance compared to our eternal destination.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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