One Agnostic's View of the New Atheists

[Thumpalumpacus]

As an Air Force firefighter, as well as in civilian life, I've been in real tight corners. I was much too busy handling business to bother with such an imaginary source of help.

And I don't know many servicemen whose experiences under fire strengthened their faith.

[Ravenshire]

For fuck's sake, Randy. Do you have one single original thought rattling around in that head of yours or do you even think and dream copy-pasta?!?

[dyresand]

Here is how i feel about it over all.
Religion is a useless concept that well frankly needs to die here and now in the modern age.
Let's be honest it already served is purpose long ago now it's just a hindrance to science
and over all humanity in general. Stim cell research set back because people were ignorant
the research itself is a major step forward in helping people who are paralyzed and other things.

[Jenny A]

I read Matt Nelson's blog entry on the New Atheists.  One sentence leaped right out at me:

The tone of today’s New Atheists is one of intensity and aggression. They are not out to merely inform. They are out to convert—to de-vangelize.

Attibuted to John Lenox by Matt Nelson

I agree.  The Four Horsemen, Matt Dillahunty and the other hosts of The Atheist Experience (which I enjoy), and a number of other atheist groups and people are out to deconvert theists.  But it's hardly new, so were many of the Free Thinkers (many of whom were deists).   But why is it so horrible and aggressive to try to deconvert?  After all, aren't most theists (absent a few non-evangelist groups like the Jews) out to convert.  If it's so horribly aggressive to try to deconvert, isn't it horribly aggressive to try to convert?

I personally don't have much interest in deconverting people.  But why would it be more offensive, or aggressive if I did?
It's a double standard and one I've called a few church folk on my door step about.  If you want to talk to my child about Faith Christian Church, do I get to talk to yours about atheism?  No one ever takes me up on that.  Occasionally, but not often they have the decency to look chagrined.

Consider what really aggressive atheists might look like:





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pwwvBygoFA

[Cecelia]

Believers do tend to be more irrational than non-believers. I recall someone once saying that the theory of evolution was a 'dying theory'. They dismiss all claims that do not conform to their preconceived conclusion. They readily accept the ones that do. That doesn't mean they are stupid. It merely means that their beliefs are so deeply rooted that they ignore reason in favor of faith.

There are also atheists in foxholes. The numbers are lower naturally because there are fewer atheists than there are believers. You will also however not find atheists flying planes into buildings, or blowing themselves up.

As for the idea nobody can be bullied into believing.. that's plainly false. Children are bullied into it with the idea that if they don't believe, they'll go to hell. That idea carries on with them through their lives. They're indoctrinated from a young age, and with bullying are led to believe that if they do not believe, they will burn in hell for eternity. That means many of them can't stop even if they wanted to out of fear (a result of the bullying)

[TheRocketSurgeon]

Believers do tend to be more irrational than non-believers.  I recall someone once saying that the theory of evolution was a 'dying theory'.  They dismiss all claims that do not conform to their preconceived conclusion.  They readily accept the ones that do.  That doesn't mean they are stupid.  It merely means that their beliefs are so deeply rooted that they ignore reason in favor of faith.  

I suppose you could call the Theory of Evolution a "dying theory", in that it's driven in large part by Natural Selection of what dies before it can breed.

All jokes aside, I've always found it fascinating, ever since I learned that the diversity of life on earth, its shape and its form, is created largely by death. If the dinos hadn't died out, we wouldn't be here... or we'd probably still look like our shrewlike ancestors, anyway. It's also driven by beautiful things, like cooperation, sex, and cleverness/adaptability... sometimes the oddball with the "weird" trait is the one who saves the species from extinction. Evolution is a beautiful Theory, and it truly floors me that they take such issue with it in favor of the utterly bizarre, narrow, and egocentric idea that this was all made for humans.

[Esquilax]

3. They are also pathetic because they can’t accept the finality of death.

To which Humphrys responds:

“Maybe, but it doesn’t mean they’re wrong. Count the number of atheists in the foxholes or the cancer wards.”

In June/July of this year my wife Luckie was hospitalized for a pulmonary embolism. It had progressed to a point that some of the tissue in her lungs had died and if we had waited any longer before calling an ambulance she could have suffocated. For a period of several days while they tested her the tentative diagnosis was that a pre-existing chronic condition had progressed to an incurable, lethal stage that would have cut her life span considerably. Nobody prayed, nobody converted, and I stayed by her side every day of that.

Earlier this year, before that, Luckie was hospitalized for a persistent fever that was dehydrating her, while we begged the doctors to do something other than just normalizing the dehydration and sending her home. If we didn't get it cured she would have just wasted away and died. Nobody prayed, nobody converted, and I stayed by her side every day of that.

My point is that we are both atheists, we have been in hospital wards together facing down the possibility that our new marriage could be cut short before it even really got going, and neither of us suddenly found ourselves appealing to Randy's specific space wizard for help. There are, in fact, atheists in foxholes, and the author of the quote above is a profoundly insipid, presumptuous piece of human garbage for suggesting otherwise.

[TheRocketSurgeon]

I'm so sorry to hear you had to go through that, Esquilax, just as I am happy to hear you still have your Beloved with you.

[robvalue]

I echo those sentiments, I can't imagine how horrific that must have been.

Some theists seem to make the mistake of thinking atheism must in some way resemble a religion. Atheists are not required to support or even agree with anything any other atheist says.

If you're hiding in a foxhole, you clearly do not believe there is any magical buddy protecting you.

[Losty]

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Seriously though.... what's an agnostic?