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The ahh so your really agnostic argument
September 30, 2013 at 8:29 pm
I do not not even understand why people even make this argument, it is so fucking stupid. The reason is because first you sound arrogant as hell trying to dictate the meaning of the word atheist to a atheist, secondly there is no real difference between someone self identifying as a agonistic or a atheist, they both disbelieve.
Take me as a example, I identify as a agnostic, but I still consider the Christian god no more likely then a fairy tale. So even if you win you get nowhere, even if you get a atheist to admit there isn't full certainty, it still leaves you as a theist with a unproven and incoherent hypotheses.
To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
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RE: The ahh so your really agnostic argument
September 30, 2013 at 8:36 pm
Because the truly stupid cling to that infinitesimal chance that their bullshit could be "true."
Somehow, those benighted fools interpret a 1/1,000,000 of a percent chance the same as a certainty. Give them an inch and they'll take a mile.
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RE: The ahh so your really agnostic argument
September 30, 2013 at 8:37 pm
It occurs to me that were I to define 'Christianity' in a way that was convenient to my argument, I could 'prove' all sorts of things.
Thankfully, I'm not intellectually bankrupt.
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RE: The ahh so your really agnostic argument
September 30, 2013 at 8:40 pm
(September 30, 2013 at 8:37 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: It occurs to me that were I to define 'Christianity' in a way that was convenient to my argument, I could 'prove' all sorts of things.
Thankfully, I'm not intellectually bankrupt.
Just morally...like the rest of us baby eaters.
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RE: The ahh so your really agnostic argument
September 30, 2013 at 8:45 pm
(This post was last modified: September 30, 2013 at 9:18 pm by Simon Moon.)
It is true that agnosticism and atheism are not mutually exclusive positions, but I do disagree with your following statement:
(September 30, 2013 at 8:29 pm)Lemonvariable72 Wrote: secondly there is no real difference between someone self identifying as a agonistic or a atheist, they both disbelieve.
I have a good theist friend that is an agnostic theist. In other words, he believes a god exists, but he does not claim to know that a god exists.
If you want to read a whole pile of arrogant agnostic BS loaded with one straw man fallacy after another, here you go.
The Agnostic Manifesto - By Ron Rosenbaum
http://www.slate.com/articles/life/the_s...festo.html
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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RE: The ahh so your really agnostic argument
September 30, 2013 at 8:48 pm
(This post was last modified: September 30, 2013 at 8:50 pm by Ryantology.)
(September 30, 2013 at 8:37 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: It occurs to me that were I to define 'Christianity' in a way that was convenient to my argument, I could 'prove' all sorts of things.
Thankfully, I'm not intellectually bankrupt.
Thankfully, you can define 'Christianity' as the Bible portrays it, without the Bible's biases, and prove all that's necessary to prove.
What is important to remember when talking about the Bible is that there's no rule which says there's a correct way to interpret it, and the 40,000+ denominations of Christianity alone prove that. So, every time someone like Drich tries to tell you that you're not interpreting it correctly, remind him that his version of scripture is just just one meaningless and nonsensical re-interpretations floating about like turds in a Wal-Mart crapper.
Reading the Bible without accepting the pro-God bias which taints the entire narrative is the only way to actually get truth from it. An interpretation which always assumes that God is good is inherently faulty and can safely be dismissed as incorrect.
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RE: The ahh so your really agnostic argument
September 30, 2013 at 8:52 pm
I am not sure if it was Cthulhu Dreaming or Ryantology, anyway, I remember when a new member opened a thread posting that "argument" and one of the two replied something along the lines of "Oh thats great as long as you feel supirior to everyone else".
I think that is the best reply to gve to that "argument".
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RE: The ahh so your really agnostic argument
September 30, 2013 at 9:29 pm
If science proves it, I can accept the existence of a supreme being, but that doesn't make me agnostic. I don't believe a god exists, but I accept truths. If God is shown to be true, I'll change my tune. But it'll never happen. That becomes clearer and clearer to me every day.
"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.”
- Buddha
"Anyone wanting to believe Jesus lived and walked as a real live human being must do so despite the evidence, not because of it."
- Dennis McKinsey
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RE: The ahh so your really agnostic argument
September 30, 2013 at 10:52 pm
(September 30, 2013 at 8:36 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Because the truly stupid cling to that infinitesimal chance that their bullshit could be "true."
But see, that's the problem: "you're really an agnostic" isn't an argument. It certainly doesn't demonstrate that there's a god, so it's an proposition that, even if granted, does nothing to validate the actual premise the theist is arguing. The reason a theist would even make that "argument" is because they've conflated winning a single point with winning the entire thing.
That's why they're so hung up on certainty. To them, if someone admits they don't know for sure, they can go "Aha! So you're wrong, then."
It's not the way it works for normal people, but then... 
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee
Want to see more of my writing? Check out my (safe for work!) site, Unprotected Sects!
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RE: The ahh so your really agnostic argument
October 1, 2013 at 12:22 am
(September 30, 2013 at 8:48 pm)Ryantology Wrote: (September 30, 2013 at 8:37 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: It occurs to me that were I to define 'Christianity' in a way that was convenient to my argument, I could 'prove' all sorts of things.
Thankfully, I'm not intellectually bankrupt.
Thankfully, you can define 'Christianity' as the Bible portrays it, without the Bible's biases, and prove all that's necessary to prove.
What is important to remember when talking about the Bible is that there's no rule which says there's a correct way to interpret it, and the 40,000+ denominations of Christianity alone prove that. So, every time someone like Drich tries to tell you that you're not interpreting it correctly, remind him that his version of scripture is just just one meaningless and nonsensical re-interpretations floating about like turds in a Wal-Mart crapper.
Reading the Bible without accepting the pro-God bias which taints the entire narrative is the only way to actually get truth from it. An interpretation which always assumes that God is good is inherently faulty and can safely be dismissed as incorrect.
Sure, of course. But the point stands - when one is free to define terms as one wishes, one can mentally masturbate any "truth" into existence.
That Christianity, as any individual Christian defines it themselves, doesn't make a strong case for itself is convenient to be sure - but largely beside my point.
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