Genesis 2:7 and Mark 10:11 certainly seem clear enough to me, yet not one Christer in a hundred would concur with me.
The granting of a pardon is an imputation of guilt, and the acceptance a confession of it.
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Personal relationships with deities
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 RE: Personal relationships with deities
October 7, 2015 at 2:11 am
(This post was last modified: October 7, 2015 at 2:25 am by robvalue.)
I just watched this recent Matt Dillahunty video, and it's awesome as usual
 He talks about many interesting things, but focuses on "relationships with God". He presents the argument from divine hiddenness, aka the argument from crickets or "I'm right here, yo!". If God made us specifically to have a relationship with us, then spends the whole time hiding from us, then he is the one creating the barrier. I'd be quite happy to have a civilised relationship with God. I'd be very interested to talk to him. I'm totally ready for it. If however I have to be ready to kiss his ass and prostate myself just to earn his presence, then he is looking for mindless servants, not companions. I know what a relationship is, and one party forever hiding and refusing to communicate is not it. If he made me with a brain and then doesn't want to talk to me because I use that brain to the best of my ability, he has only himself to blame. I would hope theists take the time to listen to him. He used to be a devout Christian and was studying to become a minister. This guy really tried to have a relationship with God. For people eager to shout "No he didn't!", that's the No True Scotsman fallacy, falls foul of the very subject of the video, and also comes under magical thinking (claiming to know information you can't possibly have access to). http://youtu.be/TRB0TDq8tWE Feel free to send me a private message.
Please visit my website here! It's got lots of information about atheism/theism and support for new atheists. Index of useful threads and discussions Index of my best videos Quickstart guide to the forum 
What an idiot that guy is, Rob, he forgot to A/S/K
RE: Personal relationships with deities
October 7, 2015 at 2:23 am
(This post was last modified: October 7, 2015 at 4:01 am by robvalue.)
Blasphemer! This is the pope of atheism!
Feel free to send me a private message.
Please visit my website here! It's got lots of information about atheism/theism and support for new atheists. Index of useful threads and discussions Index of my best videos Quickstart guide to the forum 
And he's a Tori Amos fan, too! I like him already. (Still watching video.)
A Christian told me: if you were saved you cant lose your salvation. you're sealed with the Holy Ghost
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.  (September 17, 2015 at 10:35 am)Drich Wrote: I thought we did a whole thread on this, and I was able to show you that what you called prayer infact wasn't. So the question then becomes have you even ever really prayed to God? Again asking God for stuff is not prayer it is supplication or petition. The bible is clear on what prayer is, it is you asking God to change your mind and your heart, rather than you trying to change his. ...and what happens when two Christians pray to God to change their minds, and they leave the whole experience with two different claims? All you did was kick the can back a step, and not even very far.  (October 6, 2015 at 11:47 am)Exian Wrote: I think it's all to do with our ability to empathize and have theory of mind. Keep at it for long enough and it becomes real to that person, even if it is an untestable subjective experience. But there's a difference between having a real relationship and believing you're in a relationship... right, Thena? Babe?^ A clear violation of a court order^ 
Empathy is love.
 (October 7, 2015 at 3:40 pm)RobbyPants Wrote:(September 17, 2015 at 10:35 am)Drich Wrote: I thought we did a whole thread on this, and I was able to show you that what you called prayer infact wasn't. So the question then becomes have you even ever really prayed to God? Again asking God for stuff is not prayer it is supplication or petition. The bible is clear on what prayer is, it is you asking God to change your mind and your heart, rather than you trying to change his. Yes, there are prayers and hundreds of xtian songs that beg gawd to "change my heart". - And once upon a time, I too sang along happily, with my brain turned completely off so I wouldn't think about what I was singing. But if you think about it, the very act of asking means that you are not taking responsibility for your own thoughts and feelings. Good grief, we even teach 7-year-olds to control their emotions and to communicate clearly. And here adults are praying for some deity (who doesn't have time to feed starving children, or help people who are being abused, or heal people with terminal illnesses, or stop people from killing and torturing each other in HIS name) to stop, and take a moment to play personal therapist and magically re-wire their brain for them. 
"The family that prays together...is brainwashing their children."- Albert Einstein
Whether prayer is about asking the skyguy for stuff or not, either way it does fuck-all and is indistinguishable from it simply not being a real phenomenon
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