A few points of conflict with Jackie L's (Eilonnwy) article.

[Shell B]

Whilst we're on the subject, what about clubs giving free entry to women after certain hours, whilst still charging men? What statistics and studies support that idea? It's privilege.

Women attract men. It's strategy.

To be honest, I think it is stupid. Then again, I never go to clubs unless a really great band is playing. Notice I said band and not DJ.

[downbeatplumb]

Women attract men. It's strategy.

To be honest, I think it is stupid. Then again, I never go to clubs unless a really great band is playing. Notice I said band and not DJ.

Went to a pub with a punk band in last saturday.

Still cant hear right.

[thesummerqueen]

I'll revive this thread for the sake of two comments I read on her page which had me rolling:

It was sometime after the bulk of this thread was posted when I recounted the arguments to several friends of various genders and races to see what they thought. There were some interesting variants, but the one who was the most vocal was a black Christian friend of mine, who came back after a three year tour in Iraq last year. After he finished laughing his head off, he asked what a little white girl living in America who had the time and leisure to think up such an article could possibly know about hardship and "privilege".

[Shell B]

It was sometime after the bulk of this thread was posted when I recounted the arguments to several friends of various genders and races to see what they thought. There were some interesting variants, but the one who was the most vocal was a black Christian friend of mine, who came back after a three year tour in Iraq last year. After he finished laughing his head off, he asked what a little white girl living in America who had the time and leisure to think up such an article could possibly know about hardship and "privilege".

To be fair, I know that Eil is from Boston. That could mean one of two things. She is either very privileged or under privileged. She might not be some "white girl" living the high life. On the other hand, she could be. I just wanted to be fair and say that none of us know what her life is like, to my knowledge.

[thesummerqueen]

To be fair, I know that Eil is from Boston. That could mean one of two things. She is either very privileged or under privileged. She might not be some "white girl" living the high life. On the other hand, she could be. I just wanted to be fair and say that none of us know what her life is like, to my knowledge.

You're right and I did bear that in mind. I've been accused of the same thing myself by people who have absolutely no idea what I went through in my past. My friend's point, however, was that after witnessing what constitutes as privilege and hardship in another country, and several others, she sounded as if she were speaking from ignorance. Discimination exists here, and hardships, but here...no one is helpless. We have programs in place, and outlets, and opportunities other people dream about.

I said it earlier in the argument, but he agreed with me: her article was blatantly sensational. Maybe that's just our opinion. I didn't think she was being fair.

[Shell B]

You're right and I did bear that in mind. I've been accused of the same thing myself by people who have absolutely no idea what I went through in my past. My friend's point, however, was that after witnessing what constitutes as privilege and hardship in another country, and several others, she sounded as if she were speaking from ignorance. Discimination exists here, and hardships, but here...no one is helpless. We have programs in place, and outlets, and opportunities other people dream about.

I said it earlier in the argument, but he agreed with me: her article was blatantly sensational. Maybe that's just our opinion. I didn't think she was being fair.

I'm not really defending her, just saying that I don't know what her past is like. She has always been a little overbearing and many people disagree with her. I think she means well, though.

Some people are helpless. Granted, I doubt she is one of them, but living in the U.S. doesn't really mean you always have options. Take schizophrenics for example. They are more likely to be homeless, they are terrified of shelters and have a seriously hard time taking meds and making it to appointments. Many of them live in the woods. Yes, there are options for many, but not for all. I digress. Sorry about that.

[thesummerqueen]

I digress. Sorry about that.

Nah, we never learn without sussing out the finer details.

[Shell B]

Every one of your avatars further cements my belief that you lounge around looking pretty all day.

Yeah, I've just seen the systems put in place fail miserably, so I guess I am disenchanted with the idea that America is the land of opportunity. Don't get me wrong. I love it here and, believe me, I know it's terrible in a lot of other countries. I just think that no one's life experiences can be ascertained by the location of their home land.

[thesummerqueen]

Every one of your avatars further cements my belief that you lounge around looking pretty all day.

[blush] not at all - on occasion I indulge a certain older gentleman and he has an inexplicable talent for coaxing a good half-candid picture out of me.

Yeah, I've just seen the systems put in place fail miserably, so I guess I am disenchanted with the idea that America is the land of opportunity. Don't get me wrong. I love it here and, believe me, I know it's terrible in a lot of other countries. I just think that no one's life experiences can be ascertained by the location of their home land.

I do see your point, and perhaps I was wrong to say that "no one is helpless," but for the most part the conversation addressed people who had a voice and weren't medically or otherwise incapable. There are going to be those who slip through the cracks, unfortunately, but at least we as a country have tried to put them (programs) in place. I know you're not arguing that; again, I just thought the approach to the issue was entirely wrong and more than a little ridiculous.