Forum theists: when you have a moment, please...

[Ravenshire]

I would truly love to hear an explanation for this that isn't "mysterious ways," "gawd's inscrutable plan" or "he made us, he can do what he wants."

That seems to be the only ammo the theists have. Too bad they're the equivalent of loading up blanks.

Actually, the typical theistic apologist argument is that god is a parent and must punish humankind for disobeying him, considering that we are his children and children must obey their parents.  Also, a secondary argument is that god is far beyond our understanding and that we must trust his intentions and actions as good because we are mere lowly creatures.

So, basically the "he made us, he can do what he wants" and "gawd's inscrutable plan" arguments.

[TheRocketSurgeon]

I've not started many threads and the ones I have, haven't been for a lot of comments. The reason I do not start threads that will be conversation pieces is because most atheist here do not want to have intelligent conversation about God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit or the Bible, instead they want to insult and derail such conversations. I find most atheist do not know enough about the Bible to have those kinds of conversations, this is not intended as demeaning, it's just fact. They rely on Google or whatever to get as little info as they can to make comments. Using a verse or two for these kinds of conversations is inappropriate for these types of conversations. They also use what others say as fact whether they get it from the forum or the net, they do not know enough about scriptures to form their own opinions, believe me I've tried to get original ideas from them. Again I'm not saying any of this as demeaning, it's what I've observed over the last five years. So I would rather join in on threads where I find interest.

GC

Except those of us who were Southern Baptists before becoming atheists, and studied the Bible intensely throughout their upbringing as a fundamentalist evangelical Christian.

Or is it that we lose our ability to know the Bible, once we decide that the Jesus story isn't real and that the Old Testament is incompatible with a genuine understanding of the laws of nature?

[Ravenshire]

I've not started many threads and the ones I have, haven't been for a lot of comments. The reason I do not start threads that will be conversation pieces is because most atheist here do not want to have intelligent conversation about God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit or the Bible, instead they want to insult and derail such conversations. I find most atheist do not know enough about the Bible to have those kinds of conversations, this is not intended as demeaning, it's just fact. They rely on Google or whatever to get as little info as they can to make comments. Using a verse or two for these kinds of conversations is inappropriate for these types of conversations. They also use what others say as fact whether they get it from the forum or the net, they do not know enough about scriptures to form their own opinions, believe me I've tried to get original ideas from them. Again I'm not saying any of this as demeaning, it's what I've observed over the last five years. So I would rather join in on threads where I find interest.

GC

(emphasis is mine)

As if it's possible to have an intelligent discussion of these topics.

[Strider]

I've not started many threads and the ones I have, haven't been for a lot of comments. The reason I do not start threads that will be conversation pieces is because most atheist here do not want to have intelligent conversation about God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit or the Bible, instead they want to insult and derail such conversations. I find most atheist do not know enough about the Bible to have those kinds of conversations, this is not intended as demeaning, it's just fact. They rely on Google or whatever to get as little info as they can to make comments. Using a verse or two for these kinds of conversations is inappropriate for these types of conversations. They also use what others say as fact whether they get it from the forum or the net, they do not know enough about scriptures to form their own opinions, believe me I've tried to get original ideas from them. Again I'm not saying any of this as demeaning, it's what I've observed over the last five years. So I would rather join in on threads where I find interest.

GC

On the contrary, many of the atheists, agnostics, and others here know quite a bit about the bible. Some, such as myself, are former churchgoers and know about as much about the bible as any other person sitting in the pews on a given Wednesday or Sunday. As a matter of fact, I'd say that I didn't really start reading the bible critically until what little faith I had was gone.

[Athene]

What topics would you most like to discuss? Unless of course you think I'm insane.

I can't be certain, but I'd feel safe in betting you're not insane.  

I'm not referring to you or many of the other theists that post here.  I'm talking about the drive-by, lunatic fringe that post walls of Scripture, looming of damnation, and nothing else. Or rambling, barely decipherable posts primarily comprised of insults and claims of being the Son of God, etc. I don't even believe that they should stop posting; I just wish that some of the more lucid theists would balance it out more. What people decide to post is up to them.

[Athene]

Insane ones still get the juices flowing.

Yeah, they do. And it's entertaining as hell when it's just a few threads/posts.  It gets old really fast when every other thread is full of damn gobbledygook, though.

[Athene]

I've not started many threads and the ones I have, haven't been for a lot of comments. The reason I do not start threads that will be conversation pieces is because most atheist here do not want to have intelligent conversation about God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit or the Bible, instead they want to insult and derail such conversations. I find most atheist do not know enough about the Bible to have those kinds of conversations, this is not intended as demeaning, it's just fact. They rely on Google or whatever to get as little info as they can to make comments. Using a verse or two for these kinds of conversations is inappropriate for these types of conversations. They also use what others say as fact whether they get it from the forum or the net, they do not know enough about scriptures to form their own opinions, believe me I've tried to get original ideas from them. Again I'm not saying any of this as demeaning, it's what I've observed over the last five years. So I would rather join in on threads where I find interest.

GC

Fair enough, GC. You shouldn't start threads if you don't want to. But if you did decide to for some reason, you do realize that aren't required to address every post, aren't you?

[Qwest]

I would truly love to hear an explanation for this that isn't "mysterious ways," "gawd's inscrutable plan" or "he made us, he can do what he wants."

That seems to be the only ammo the theists have. Too bad they're the equivalent of loading up blanks.

I've had discussion on this. One thread where I discussed this was the following: http://atheistforums.org/thread-32598.html

There is other threads in which I opened regarding this while a Deist, but the thread I just linked to has more of an Islamic perspective.

Thanks for this!

[Neo-Scholastic]

What topics would you most like to discuss? Unless of course you think I'm insane.

What about a topic on why god is good despite doing bad stuff

I find discussing theodicy with atheists very frustrating, because they are not able to supply a valid moral standard by which to judge God. Most atheists with whom I have discussed this make an argument from incredulity. They base their judgment of God on their own personal moral standards or relative to social norms of Western culture.

[GrandizerII]

They base their judgment of God on their own personal moral standards or relative to social norms of Western culture.

Nothing wrong with that. How else can one judge God (assuming he exists)? Or are you saying God should be beyond judgement even if he did things that harm us?