US Muslims struggle with condemnation

[Catholic_Lady]

What about the Quakers? They're Christians too. Catholics are just a kind of Christian. Maybe CNN should bring in a Quaker from Oklahoma to set the record straight that Catholics killing people in Belgium is not what Quakers are about.

Um, what?

Ok, I see what you're saying now. My apologies. My response is, sure! If a Catholic terrorist group was currently slaughtering thousands of people in the name of Jesus, I would have no problem with any news source interviewing a person who was there representing Christianity. Obviously it would be more informative if they interviewed a Catholic specifically, but if they interviewed a Christian from another denomination, why the heck should I care? I would be much more concerned about the fact that thousands of innocent people are being murdered in the name of my faith, than I would about saving face or whatever.

[Thumpalumpacus]

If that's true then that's encouraging

So we know that when it comes to political control vs. religious ideas and your country is on the border, we know what comes first.

Q. What stops the rest of the Middle East from gladly joining ISIS?
A. Political control.

Q. What most motivates the evangelical Xtians of America in their attempts at influencing our government and lording their legislation over others who still care about their Constitutional rights? 
A. Political control. It certainly isn't the integrity of their religion, much less their own moral integrity!

---

Like Quakers and Baptists and Catholics are all the same, eh?

The point is that we all have better reason for knowing they aren't all the same. Because the second one in any such Xtian group does something evil with official or secretive sectarian support, the others will get up and cry foul, as a way of distancing themselves from the stink. I'm an atheist, and I also believe organizational atheist leaders should do the same when atheists kill out of hatred. So then, why won't Muslim leaders do this? It's because they'd rather give us the finger, and stupid Western journalists enable them to get away with it!

Except that Muslim leaders do do exactly that.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

The hysteria over a few killings by terrorists is asinine and completely blown out of proportion for propaganda reasons.  Since 9-11 muslim nutters have killed just 48 people in America.    White supremacists nutters have killed 48.  Crazy cops, friends, family members, and neighbors have killed over 200,000.

"Obama's Speech, Translated into Candor"
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/norman-sol...37054.html

"As a practical matter, the current hysteria needs guidance, not a sense of proportion along the lines of what the New York Times just mentioned in passing: "The death toll from jihadist terrorism on American soil since the Sept. 11 attacks -- 45 people -- is about the same as the 48 killed in terrorist attacks motivated by white supremacist and other right-wing extremist ideologies.... And both tolls are tiny compared with the tally of conventional murders, more than 200,000 over the same period.""

7,397 people were killed in Chicago during that same time period.
https://data.cityofchicago.org/Public-Sa.../ukvm-p8wb

Houston had 3,614 murders from 2001-2013.

So if you want to worry about getting killed, worry about crazy cops, friends, family member, and neighbors killing uoi instead of nutty muslim terrorists.

Don't you think these statistics are actually pretty bad?  It's basically saying that since the day Islamic terrorists killed over 2000 people, they have been as violent as your average white supremacist group. So not including the 2000 that died that day, they're as violent as white supremacist terrorists, with the added factor that they're continuing to attack Europe and promising America will be next.
To me it seems like the mentality of an abused housewife to view these statistics as promising in relation to Muslims .  It's like saying "well since my husband beat me half to death with a baseball bat he's only beat me as much as an average domestic abuse victim so I'm sure there's nothing to worry about"

Nice try.

What I said was that muslim and white supermacists kill an insignificant number of people in America at this time.  Crazy cops,friends, family member, and neighbors kill people like they're mowing the lawn.  

Over 200,000 dead from crazy cops, friends, family members, and neighbors versus less than 100 dead during the same period from muslim and white supermacists.  Of the two death tolls which would would rather have?  If only 93 people had been murdered in all of America since 2001 you would think you're living in heaven.  Instead people run around like crazy chickens clamoring for wars in foreign countries that will cost $trillions which they don't want to pay for with taxes.  In addition they want thousands of military personnel to get killed and wounded because they are wimpy cowards who fear some insignificant problem that they are willing to surrender all of their freedoms in a vain attempt to gain safety.  The real enemy is the people who want to do that.

[CapnAwesome]

Don't you think these statistics are actually pretty bad?  It's basically saying that since the day Islamic terrorists killed over 2000 people, they have been as violent as your average white supremacist group. So not including the 2000 that died that day, they're as violent as white supremacist terrorists, with the added factor that they're continuing to attack Europe and promising America will be next.
To me it seems like the mentality of an abused housewife to view these statistics as promising in relation to Muslims .  It's like saying "well since my husband beat me half to death with a baseball bat he's only beat me as much as an average domestic abuse victim so I'm sure there's nothing to worry about"

Nice try.

What I said was that muslim and white supermacists kill an insignificant number of people in America at this time.  Crazy cops,friends, family member, and neighbors kill people like they're mowing the lawn.  

Over 200,000 dead from crazy cops, friends, family members, and neighbors versus less than 100 dead during the same period from muslim and white supermacists.  Of the two death tolls which would would rather have?  If only 93 people had been murdered in all of America since 2001 you would think you're living in heaven.  Instead people run around like crazy chickens clamoring for wars in foreign countries that will cost $trillions which they don't want to pay for with taxes.  In addition they want thousands of military personnel to get killed and wounded because they are wimpy cowards who fear some insignificant problem that they are willing to surrender all of their freedoms in a vain attempt to gain safety.  The real enemy is the people who want to do that.

That's a totally true statement. I think there are lots of things that are blown way out proportion like that. Mass shootings are another one.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

The hysteria over a few killings by terrorists is asinine and completely blown out of proportion for propaganda reasons.  Since 9-11 muslim nutters have killed just 48 people in America.    White supremacists nutters have killed 48.  Crazy cops, friends, family members, and neighbors have killed over 200,000.

"Obama's Speech, Translated into Candor"
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/norman-sol...37054.html

"As a practical matter, the current hysteria needs guidance, not a sense of proportion along the lines of what the New York Times just mentioned in passing: "The death toll from jihadist terrorism on American soil since the Sept. 11 attacks -- 45 people -- is about the same as the 48 killed in terrorist attacks motivated by white supremacist and other right-wing extremist ideologies.... And both tolls are tiny compared with the tally of conventional murders, more than 200,000 over the same period.""

7,397 people were killed in Chicago during that same time period.
https://data.cityofchicago.org/Public-Sa.../ukvm-p8wb

Houston had 3,614 murders from 2001-2013.

So if you want to worry about getting killed, worry about crazy cops, friends, family member, and neighbors killing uoi instead of nutty muslim terrorists.

Um, left out gang bangers . . . .

Gang bangers are your crazy cops, family, friends, and neighbors.

[paulpablo]

Nice try.

What I said was that muslim and white supermacists kill an insignificant number of people in America at this time.  Crazy cops,friends, family member, and neighbors kill people like they're mowing the lawn.  

Over 200,000 dead from crazy cops, friends, family members, and neighbors versus less than 100 dead during the same period from muslim and white supermacists.  Of the two death tolls which would would rather have?

Well if that's what you are tying to say I still don't understand the point.

You've taken the entire Murder rate of America and because that's more than the death toll of Muslim terrorists and white supremacists this means deaths by these groups are insignificant?

Plus there isn't an organization of cops, neighbours, friends and family who are collectively in a large group who openly state that they have a specific goal of killing again, whereas these white supremacist groups and terrorist groups do want to do this again.

And unless I'm mistaken there aren't many cops, or citizens that have caused as much damage or death as the twin tower attacks in one go.

The two things aren't really even really related so that's why I don't understand your point.

If this is your logic then surely you would say murders are insignificant altogether since HIV and cancer kill more people than murders in America.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

---

Nice try.

What I said was that muslim and white supermacists kill an insignificant number of people in America at this time.  Crazy cops,friends, family member, and neighbors kill people like they're mowing the lawn.  

Over 200,000 dead from crazy cops, friends, family members, and neighbors versus less than 100 dead during the same period from muslim and white supermacists.  Of the two death tolls which would would rather have?  If only 93 people had been murdered in all of America since 2001 you would think you're living in heaven.  Instead people run around like crazy chickens clamoring for wars in foreign countries that will cost $trillions which they don't want to pay for with taxes.  In addition they want thousands of military personnel to get killed and wounded because they are wimpy cowards who fear some insignificant problem that they are willing to surrender all of their freedoms in a vain attempt to gain safety.  The real enemy is the people who want to do that.

---

That's a totally true statement. I think there are lots of things that are blown way out proportion like that. Mass shootings are another one.

The control freaks love when those things happen because it gives them the perfect excuse to incite the dummies to clamor for giving up their freedoms so that they can "be safe".  Every incident moves us closer to becoming a full-fledged police state where the people have no freedom.

Back in the 60s the government and popular culture made heroes out of Cuban highjackers who stole airplanes to fly out of Cuba.  When they got here some of them even got jobs with airlines.  The muslim nutters saw that the Cubans got away with it and then they started highjacking planes.  Now you have to almost strip naked to pass through the airport checkpoint Charlie.  People put up with it because it makes them "feel safe".  The government spies on the entire world but hires people it puts on its phony watchlists.  Meanwhile tons of cocaine, heroin, opium, and assorted pills come into the country like they are tvs.  For some reason they don't have a clue as to who's doing that or who's funding and arming the terrorists or buying their stolen oil.  But they know where you have been by tracking your smart phone.  

In another generation you will need permission to leave your house but all of those problems will continue without a snag.  

The sole purpose of ramping up the hysteria over mass shootings and the very rare terrorist attack is to get people to surrender their freedom and liberty.  The Brits are going bonkers because a nut cut three people at a train station.  

[God of Mr. Hanky]

So we know that when it comes to political control vs. religious ideas and your country is on the border, we know what comes first.

Q. What stops the rest of the Middle East from gladly joining ISIS?
A. Political control.

Q. What most motivates the evangelical Xtians of America in their attempts at influencing our government and lording their legislation over others who still care about their Constitutional rights? 
A. Political control. It certainly isn't the integrity of their religion, much less their own moral integrity!

---

The point is that we all have better reason for knowing they aren't all the same. Because the second one in any such Xtian group does something evil with official or secretive sectarian support, the others will get up and cry foul, as a way of distancing themselves from the stink. I'm an atheist, and I also believe organizational atheist leaders should do the same when atheists kill out of hatred. So then, why won't Muslim leaders do this? It's because they'd rather give us the finger, and stupid Western journalists enable them to get away with it!

Except that Muslim leaders do do exactly that.

Maybe you meant to elaborate a little more. You seem to be the only one who's aware of any Muslim leaders specifically condemning fatwas, political misogyny, barbarism for justice, or any other stomach-turning practices carried out in the Middle East, Africa, and Indonesia which are supported by their holy book. Islam may be bitterly divided, but the last time I checked they still had one relatively unmodified book. If any of the world Imams so much as condemned acts of terror, that in itself would be something, but in no way would it be enough.

---

What I said was that muslim and white supermacists kill an insignificant number of people in America at this time.  Crazy cops,friends, family member, and neighbors kill people like they're mowing the lawn.  

Over 200,000 dead from crazy cops, friends, family members, and neighbors versus less than 100 dead during the same period from muslim and white supermacists.  Of the two death tolls which would would rather have?  If only 93 people had been murdered in all of America since 2001 you would think you're living in heaven.  Instead people run around like crazy chickens clamoring for wars in foreign countries that will cost $trillions which they don't want to pay for with taxes.  In addition they want thousands of military personnel to get killed and wounded because they are wimpy cowards who fear some insignificant problem that they are willing to surrender all of their freedoms in a vain attempt to gain safety.  The real enemy is the people who want to do that.

Do you really think you're saying anything relevant with this? There are fewer Muslims in America than Jews, which is about 1% of the population, and that's far fewer than atheists at 3%! Bring in enough Muslims to match the white population, and watch the body count rise!

[CapnAwesome]

If Muslims really wanted to condemn terrorism, they'd have to condemn their original terrorist and slaver, Muhammad. I think sometimes if Muslims spoke out against certain activities that ISIS or similar groups do, it would be quickly pointed out that Muhammad did the exact same activities during his life. The figure of Muhammad is unavoidable in Islam. Christians have a far easier time with a hippy like Jesus as their central figure.

[vorlon13]

{not picking on CL}

Is there a difference between;

A Catholic group murdering pagans for being pagans

A Catholic group murdering other Catholics for not being Catholic enough (whatever the hell that means)

A Catholic group murdering Lutherans for apsotasy

A Catholic group 'trading murders' with a similarly violent Jewish group

A Catholic group murdering atheists for being atheists (I see this as different then the pagan one)

A Catholic group murdering Hindus for being Hindus, vs. murdering Hindus for not being Catholics