Near death experience of Howard Storm

[Mister Agenda]

Yeah, I've had false awakenings, too.

My unintentional lucid dreaming seems to have diminished considerably now that I'm off the Clonadine; though I've always tended to have vivid dreams that I can remember when I wake up.

As vivid as reality?

Occasionally, though surreal as well.

[Angrboda]

I do have a serious question for all of you.

Would you WANT this story to be real?

The story reminds me of something out of Scientology. Are you asking if I want the story to reveal a literal God and angels? I don't want it to be either way. If it's truly indicative of reality, then I want to know that, but it doesn't seem so.

Would it make you happy if it were? Or would you still hate the idea of God and afterlife even after reading this story which paints God and the afterlife in such a positive light?

I don't hate the idea of God and afterlife. I suspect they are just absurd fantasies, but I don't hate them. I'm fully willing to accept that you can view them in a positive light, that God isn't a monster, and heaven isn't unbearable. I accept that there might be a pleasant version of both, but that does not change my stance on the likely explanation for such beliefs, nor would I find them any less absurd and unbelieveable.

Would you rather it all be a farce, and that we all just die when we die and there is no loving God?

Would I rather? I'd rather my former Hindu beliefs were true, which is to point out that when faced with the unreal, we retreat to our former beliefs. But what I believe isn't based on what I'd rather be true. If God exists, I would find it hard to reconcile the idea that he is loving with setting up a gulag of eternal punishment simply for disobeying or disbelieving in him. It isn't that I wouldn't desire a loving God. I find the notion that this particular God is loving absurd. Do I prefer a nice dirt nap to the prospect of an afterlife? Yes I do. Probably because I am unhappy and would not want to go on being unhappy for another interim. But if the afterlife were a pleasant experience, I can see that being desirable on its own merits as well.

[The Grand Nudger]

I do have a serious question for all of you.

Would you WANT this story to be real?

Would it make you happy if it were? Or would you still hate the idea of God and afterlife even after reading this story which paints God and the afterlife in such a positive light?

Would you rather it all be a farce, and that we all just die when we die and there is no loving God?

Would it make me happy if it were?  Not really, no.  I guess I'm just difficult to please?  Good food, good company, a good venue.....you know, things like that make me happy.  This story doesn't register as a blip on my happiness radar.

Since I don't hate the idea of god or afterlives in the first place this one probably isn't relevant to me.   

Since there won't be any such loving god for me regardless of whether or not the story is true......what I would rather is irrelevant in context.

You're essentially asking me whether or not I -wish- to be baited by cake in the afterlife. I hope there's more to god and heaven than all that, if there's a god or a heaven...-that's- what I would wish, what I would rather. If there isn't, I'm still uninterested. I find his story far less than convincing, but it wouldn't matter to me, ultimately, if it were true -or- false.

[Alex K]

Ok, but there's such a thing as a false awakening. You wake up, everything seems normal, you start thinking about your dream or do other stuff only to realise at one point that you're still dreaming, or to actually wake up from that.

So you're familiar with lucid dreaming? You can apply certain techniques to both prolong these dreams, have better recall of them, more awareness while you're dreaming, and so on, you know?

One of the scariest things that happens to me on occasion is telescoping false awakenings.  As in, false waking upwards of 10 or 20 times in a single dream.  A lot of times, when I'm asleep but have to pee, I'll dream about waking up and peeing, and then I'll realize I still have to pee, and then I'll wake up and pee... but then realize I still have to pee, and then I'll wake up... and do that a bunch of times.

I've had that one too, but only two layers. I recall one from my childhood where it took a handful of false awakenings until Iwas finally awake. I realized within my dreams that I still wasn't awake because the lampshade in my bedroom had the wrong colour or rather, was colourless.

[scoobysnack]

Hey everyone. I'm new the forum and wanted to talk about near death experiences. Personally for me information from NDEs changed my life for the better. I think unlike religion, they offer better evidence of the spiritual realms and existence of God. Hoping we can have a civil discussion about it. I'm open to your views and hope we can reciprocate the respect for each other.

I would say the most amazing experiences that I have read was from Howard Storm. He was an atheist confident that nothing happens after life and his life was completely changed after his death experience. I met Howard and listened to his story, and want to share with you all here.

Please read through the short testimonial and let me know what you think so we can talk about it. There is a lot more infomation I can post, but this would be the place to start.

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/no...storm.html

If that is your definition of short, I'd hate to read a long testimonial.

Anyway, apart from the dude claiming to be an atheist, I don't see any indication of him ever being one. The article shows no logical thinking on his part or any attempt at rationalizing the event, if it did really happen.

But NDE, if you actually look into it, is hugely affected by a person's culture and environment, just like other occurrences like alien abductions. Hence I don't see how you can conclude a spritual evidence from it.

There is a entire book about his story, but that was the short version. The book obviously has more details which may answer some of your questions. I could suppose one could assume he was never an atheist, I've never done a background check on him. I did meet him when he came to my city to speak, and listened to his story, and he gave me a hug after I told him how he helped saved my life from suicide. He seemed sincere, and even cried a little while talking about the beings that tore him apart and while he was in the void, before calling out to Jesus, and then cried a little more telling his story of how he was so ashamed meeting Jesus after not believing in him and thinking anyone that did was a complete moron. He was so amazed that Jesus would forgive him for all the bad things he had done in his life which were shown to him in his life review, with all his secrets exposed.

If you want you can read countless near death experiences from different religions, cultures, gays, atheists etc. I posted this one because it was one of the more complete ones. The more you read about them, you start to see the patterns, and get the bigger picture. This website has a lot to check out if you wanted to read about other cultures:

http://www.near-death.com/

[Excited Penguin]

If that is your definition of short, I'd hate to read a long testimonial.

Anyway, apart from the dude claiming to be an atheist, I don't see any indication of him ever being one. The article shows no logical thinking on his part or any attempt at rationalizing the event, if it did really happen.

But NDE, if you actually look into it, is hugely affected by a person's culture and environment, just like other occurrences like alien abductions. Hence I don't see how you can conclude a spritual evidence from it.

There is a entire book about his story, but that was the short version. The book obviously has more details which may answer some of your questions. I could suppose one could assume he was never an atheist, I've never done a background check on him. I did meet him when he came to my city to speak, and listened to his story, and he gave me a hug after I told him how he helped saved my life from suicide. He seemed sincere, and even cried a little while talking about the beings that tore him apart and while he was in the void, before calling out to Jesus, and then cried a little more telling his story of how he was so ashamed meeting Jesus after not believing in him and thinking anyone that did was a complete moron. He was so amazed that Jesus would forgive him for all the bad things he had done in his life which were shown to him in his life review, with all his secrets exposed.

If you want you can read countless near death experiences from different religions, cultures, gays, atheists etc. I posted this one because it was one of the more complete ones. The more you read about them, you start to see the patterns, and get the bigger picture. This website has a lot to check out if you wanted to read about other cultures:

http://www.near-death.com/

The thing is, none of this proves there's a portal between our world and any other world. The reasonable thing to think about all this in lack of any evidence is to assume that either a lot of people are lying about it, or it's all simply in their heads. Reading any number of similar stories won't prove a thing. The appropriate scientists have to study this phenomenon and report back on it. Until then, that's all they are - purported subjective experiences.

[Alex K]

@EP
I got those same reality checking tricks from a podcast where people were interviewed who researched this stuff to help people suffering from excessive lucid dreams. Was it Richard Wiseman? Where did you get those from?

[scoobysnack]

Yes, he was not declared clinically dead, but that doesn't mean much. There's no evidence proving the crimes I committed and got away with as a youth, yet I can promise you they still happened. I'm far from a perfect person, and I know that no one can claim to be. Another aspect is perception of time, which is vastly different than how we measure it in the material world. One day equaling a rotation of the earth is only relevant to those on earth.

If you say you committed crimes as a youth and weren't caught, I'll take your word for it. If you say you murdered an alien from Tau Ceti as a youth, I'll need more than your word to accept that you actually did it. Claims carry differing weights a priori, based on what we already know. That's what differentiates ordinary claims from extraordinary claims.

I tied my shoes this morning. There's no reason not to take my word for that, because a) We all have experience with people tying shoes so we know it's possible; b) I gain nothing from lying about it, not even attention, because it's trivial; and c) It's so trivial that you can't possibly lose anything by taking my word for it, even though it's possible that I could, for some reason, be lying.

If you know more about me, that could adjust your weighting of the claim. For instance, if you knew me to be paralyzed, you would be justified in wanting to know more particulars before accepting my claim at face value.

A claim that any NDE is real contradicts what we already know about biology and physics. It's an extraordinary claim. We should be very skeptical concerning them unless and until the empirical evidence that it is not just something that sometimes happens in people's brains in certain circumstances. One of the things that is evidence that it IS something that happens in some people's brains in certain circumstances is that persons of different cultures and religion have NDEs that align with their expectations. Hindus might meet Ganesh while having an NDE, for instance.

Thanks for the welcome by the way! Sure I agree it's good to be skeptical. I tend to research both sides of all arguments, and trust me I know the arguments against NDEs like the dying brain theory etc. I would also say that although we are an advanced species, we know a lot more now than we did 500 years ago, and will form different conclusions in science and physics 500 years from now.

The thing with NDEs is if you study them in mass, you would form a different conclusion than reading a few, at least from the perspective of the NDE. A common theme and message that comes back is the experience will be different for everyone, just as the experience here is different for everyone, and the beings that people meet give answers to the questions. One answer is that they provide you with the experience that you need, whether you need to meet your deceased relitives for comfort, or need time alone in the void for contemplation before moving on. That's one reason for the tunnel for example. Those in the tunnel are rushing towards the light, others go immediately into the earthbound realm and find themselves outside of their body wondering what's going on, and eventually moving into the void. I'll explain it further as we move on.

[Excited Penguin]

@EP
I got those same reality checking tricks from a podcast where people were interviewed who researched this stuff to help people suffering from excessive lucid dreams. Was it Richard Wiseman? Where did you get those from?

Excessive lucid dreaming sounds really strange to me. They must've not been doing it right if they had reason to complain about it. It's basically entering a virtual reality in which you can either simply observe where your own imagination takes you or do anything you want(literally).

I learned them from a variety of sources, but it all originates with Stephen LaBerge, if I'm not mistaken. I'm reading his book right now, The World of Lucid Dreaming.

Just google lucid dreaming if you're looking for resources. There's blogs and podcasts and whatnots. Reddit has a neat subreddit about it as well.

Actually, here's where I first read about it(that I can remember).
http://www.world-of-lucid-dreaming.com/articles.html

[scoobysnack]

How do you know he was led by emotions? It doesn't say anything about any sort of bad experience he has with religion that made him this way. He just sounds like a very skeptical person.

"...was not a very pleasant man by his own admission.  He was an avowed atheist and very hostile to every form of religion and those who practiced it.  He would often use rage to control everyone around him and he didn't find joy in anything..."

That's not the description of a regular joe who just concludes that there's no rational reason to believe in God.  This describes someone who was hostile to the very notion of a supernatural deity and toward everyone who disagreed with him.  This is often how Christians who convert from "atheism" describe themselves.  He sounds more like a person who was either afraid/in denial or someone who hated religion because of something from their past.

The short testimonial is only a fraction of the book, and I don't know what he was like before this experience and there is no way to know his past without meeting him, and even then one could assume he's lying about his past. I don't think he is. The point was that he was an atheist, and it was the personal experience for him, that changed him. It wasn't an evangelical proselytizing him showing him the bible or something like that. This was a complete 180 degree transformation. This is why I'm sharing his story.