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RE: My views on objective morality
March 2, 2016 at 9:26 pm
(March 2, 2016 at 9:23 pm)Rhythm Wrote: That you say it's only sin when it gets out of control and becomes harmful means that you're using -another- set of unspoken metrics.
I'm viewing morality as an attempt to maintain function and avoid dysfunction (this is subjective), and at objective mores as those hypothetical behaviors and views which will lead to maximal function and minimal dysfunction (this is objective).
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RE: My views on objective morality
March 2, 2016 at 9:28 pm
(This post was last modified: March 2, 2016 at 9:37 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
So, objectively subjective? I like it.
(also...you don't know my wife, she's kind of a freak )
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: My views on objective morality
March 2, 2016 at 10:17 pm
(March 2, 2016 at 6:57 pm)bennyboy Wrote: (March 2, 2016 at 1:05 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: I disagree. Example: you can have a genetic proclivity for addictive behavior, but because you were raised to despise drug users, your personal feelings kept you from being an addict. A result of environment, yet still intensely subjective.
Morality is no different. Altruism may be wired into our genetics at different levels for different individuals, but one's upbringing influences one's mental attitudes towards the morality of altruism. And when you invoke one's upbringing, you are introducing subjectivity into the process, because experiences do not matter until we mentally process them.
I think this is pretty consistent with the kind of objective morality that CL believes in: there IS an objective morality, and we are aware of it on some level, but we are free to regard or disregard that moral sense. In other words, the individual person isn't guaranteed to express moral predispositions. And that would be where Christian ideas about free will (and punishment/reward) come into play.
I'd also like to introduce the idea of the 7 Deadly Sins as a catalogue of those animal instincts which are most likely to influence people to subject their ability to act morally. If you think, it's kind of a list of those natural motivations which, if we feed them too much, may subvert one's will.
Again, I disagree. The morality inculcated into the youth could well be that drug usage or abortions are fine, even though genetically we are inclined to avoid poisons or having our bodies entered for the removal of a fetus.
However, my point was addressing the objectivity of a genetic basis for morality,not an objective morality in the sense CL means it (or so I think). Physical human growth is clearly affected by the growth environment. How much more complicated human behavior is, and how much less programmatic.
Put it this way: The aversion to killing another human being lies deep, I think, in our genetic makeup -- yet armies the world over have trained civilians to be killers without too much difficulty. The plasticity of morality is hopefully easier to see with that example.
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RE: My views on objective morality
March 3, 2016 at 2:43 am
(This post was last modified: March 3, 2016 at 2:43 am by robvalue.)
I have observed that when someone pushes gently against the boundaries of their morality, it will slowly warp to include the new behaviour as "acceptable". But if they try to go wildly against it in one go, they'll either be physically unable to act, or they will be overwhelmingly repulsed by their actions if they manage it.
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RE: My views on objective morality
March 3, 2016 at 5:56 am
Rob, are you doing experiments on people in the basement again?
"There remain four irreducible objections to religious faith: that it wholly misrepresents the origins of man and the cosmos, that because of this original error it manages to combine the maximum servility with the maximum of solipsism, that it is both the result and the cause of dangerous sexual repression, and that it is ultimately grounded on wish-thinking." ~Christopher Hitchens, god is not Great
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RE: My views on objective morality
March 3, 2016 at 6:05 am
That reminds me, it's lunch time for "them".
Sorry, what was the question?
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RE: My views on objective morality
March 3, 2016 at 6:14 am
(March 2, 2016 at 10:17 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: yet armies the world over have trained civilians to be killers without too much difficulty. The plasticity of morality is hopefully easier to see with that example.
Because, in a sense, we're still territorial chimps. It's easier to kill someone not belonging to the own group. It even makes sense, since it strenghtens the group if there's less competition. It's also easier when the own life is threatened. Survival instinct kicks in with a vengeance.
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My views on objective morality
March 3, 2016 at 7:32 am
(This post was last modified: March 3, 2016 at 7:40 am by LadyForCamus.)
(March 3, 2016 at 5:56 am)SteelCurtain Wrote: Rob, are you doing experiments on people in the basement again?
LMAO! Maybe it's just because it's only 6:30 in the morning and I'm still half-asleep, but I found that extremely funny. [emoji13]
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”
Wiser words were never spoken.
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RE: My views on objective morality
March 3, 2016 at 11:05 am
They are very off-putting when I'm trying to do my videos, screaming about rats eating their ears or some shit.
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RE: My views on objective morality
March 3, 2016 at 11:09 am
That's where a ball gag is handy.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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