My views on objective morality

[Catholic_Lady]

 In the meantime though, part of being human means we have the ability to choose good from evil, and we have the ability to act on either of those. Even though many of us will choose to do horrible things at times, God looked at humanity and still called it good. The good out weighs the bad, and in the end, everything will be made right. We don't know how or when because mere humans can't fully understand God, and can't see the whole universe - past, present, and future, but our beliefs are that God is goodness and love.

Which is why I always keep urging to dive into recent primate and dog research. It should be humbling to everyone considering humanity the  superior species and it's humbling to me, who doesn't hold that believe.

But, alas, noone ever seems to do that.

What have you learned in your research?

[abaris]

What have you learned in your research?

Seriously, you have to see it yourself. I don't want to be short or anything, but you have to see it with your own eyes.

Look for Brian Hare and his presentations. He's one of the leading scientists when it comes to dog research. Look up Frans van der Waal, who even managed to stay a christian although his research offers some valuable insights on primates. Look up the Gorilla Koko, who learned sign language.

That's only a start, of course.

[The Grand Nudger]

If we were to magically become paralyzed every time we wanted to do something bad, then we wouldn't really have free will or bodily autonomy.

God could do -just that- when, say, a diseased 40 year old man decides to rape an eleven year old girl.  The man's will to rape isn't affected anymore than his will to rape is affected by the cops showing up and stopping him.  The only difference is that an eleven year old wouldn't get syphilis. I value the rapists bodily autonomy -far- less than the little girl. Apparently you and god disagree. You can both go fuck yourselves on that count, freely.

[Catholic_Lady]

If we were to magically become paralyzed every time we wanted to do something bad, then we wouldn't really have free will or bodily autonomy.

God could do -just that- when, say, a diseased 40 year old man decides to rape an eleven year old girl.  The man's will to rape isn't affected anymore than his will to rape is affected by the cops showing up and stopping him.  The only difference is that an eleven year old wouldn't get syphilis.  I value the rapists bodily autonomy -far- less than the little girl.  Apparently you and god disagree.  You can both go fuck yourselves on that count, freely.

Well, we believe God allows nature to take its course, again, knowing in the end that everything will be made right. If someone calls the cops, they will most likely show up. If no one sees what's going on and no one calls them, they won't be there unless by some sort of divine intervention. I believe divine intervention and miracles do happen, but it's a rare thing. Mostly, God just allows us to make decisions and allows for whatever consequence may come from those decisions.

[abaris]

I believe divine intervention and miracles do happen, but it's a rare thing. Mostly, God just allows us to make decisions and allows for whatever consequence may come from those decisions.

Which he knew beforehand. So, I don't really want to go into a theological debate, since animal coginition and morality seems much more important for the context of this thread, he could have just as well created a perfect world. Even more so, since he, according to every christian belief I know of, created everyone of us.

[The Grand Nudger]

Yeah., everything will be made right...except that whole 11 year old getting syphilis while being raped bit.  Make that right.  Again, go fuck yourself. I don't know why you're babbling about god letting us make decisions, let the rapist make his decision all day long, don't let him rape the little girl. I wonder why god might intervene in one case but not another? Can he only be so many places at once? Are some more deserving than others? How many excuses do you plan to field, how hard are you going to work to convince me that you're just as terrible as your "god"?

[robvalue]

So CL, you're saying the bodily autonomy of the rapist is very important, but the autonomy of the child being raped isn't important?

If one or other has to be violated, which should it be?

Also, god invented rape. He could have had a universe where rape was simply impossible, and no one would even think about it. Instead we could have been given the freedom to explore the ~100% of the universe which is deadly to us. Instead we're glued to a rock while god watches rapists and does nothing.

Why is the possibility to "do evil" so important? Why must an innocent child pay the price for this? This is god inventing and allowing evil acts, he is not just complicit but the instigator. Like I've said above, there are a million and one things we could be allowed to do instead of raping children, yet we can't. Why is this option so important? I don't do evil things, yet I have free will just fine. I'm just blocked from doing almost all the things I would like to do which wouldn't hurt anyone.

[Catholic_Lady]

Yeah., everything will be made right...except that whole 11 year old getting syphilis while being raped bit.  Make that right.  Again, go fuck yourself.  I don't know why you're babbling about god letting us make decisions, let the rapist make his decision all day long, don't let him rape the little girl.

What I meant is that everything will be made right in the long run. As in, in eternity.

[abaris]

What I meant is that everything will be made right in the long run. As in, in eternity.

Which is, the usually green, backlighted, escape route sign for every christian, regardless of denomination.

[The Grand Nudger]

Yeah., everything will be made right...except that whole 11 year old getting syphilis while being raped bit.  Make that right.  Again, go fuck yourself.  I don't know why you're babbling about god letting us make decisions, let the rapist make his decision all day long, don't let him rape the little girl.

What I meant is that everything will be made right in the long run. As in, in eternity.

Fuck your eternity you horrible, horrible person. Howsabout you, would you make that trade? Get raped, get syphilis, all part of the price of entry into gods themepark? Hey, howsabout you go console some rape victims..see how that goes over.