My views on objective morality

[Jackalope]

You're fine, LadyOfCamus. Thread topics drift. Luckie was not speaking in an official capacity.

[LadyForCamus]

You're fine, LadyOfCamus. Thread topics drift. Luckie was not speaking in an official capacity.

Oh, thanks. [emoji4]. I still have so much to learn...

[Jackalope]

Moderator Notice

When we speak in official capacity in-thread, we do it like this.

Administrator Notice

Or this.

We have a policy of not discussing potential actions in-thread except under a narrow set of circumstances. That policy has been pretty ad hoc. I don't think Luckie was aware of it.

[Mystical]

aaaanddd back to work

[Whateverist]

But not at all too long given what you had to say, LadyFC. I agree that the all-omni concept of God is shot through with contradictions. It isn't just in the realm of morality. But there is unavoidable dissonance in the realm of morality. There aren't always good choices. There are necessary evils. So if one is saddled with literal-god belief, I suppose one just admits it is beyond their understanding and moves on. Not a very satisfying adaption for most of us.

Looking back over the thread I couldn't help but feel that the agitation you and others exhibited about God's failure to live up to his billing just seemed excessive for a being we don't believe in. When believers come on here and strike a condescending tone I get royally pissed off. But when the person who holds those beliefs is as sensitive not to be provocative as she is, I can't understand the aggressive impulse some showed in this thread. Of course being human and over reacting is always possible and understandable.

[LadyForCamus]

aaaanddd back to work

I'm so sorry!!! I can dole out as many spankings as you like! I'M SORRY!

[LadyForCamus]

But not at all too long given what you had to say, LadyFC. I agree that the all-omni concept of God is shot through with contradictions. It isn't just in the realm of morality. But there is unavoidable dissonance in the realm of morality. There aren't always good choices. There are necessary evils. So if one is saddled with literal-god belief, I suppose one just admits it is beyond their understanding and moves on. Not a very satisfying adaption for most of us.

Looking back over the thread I couldn't help but feel that the agitation you and others exhibited about God's failure to live up to his billing just seemed excessive for a being we don't believe in. When believers come on here and strike a condescending tone I get royally pissed off. But when the person who holds those beliefs is as sensitive not to be provocative as she is, I can't understand the aggressive impulse some showed in this thread. Of course being human and over reacting is always possible and understandable.

Yeah, it really came down to me just feeling like, " how could you say that you jerk!" Which was totally unfair to her. Even if I DID believe in God, she wouldn't be responsible for his asinine choices.

And yeah, it's not a satisfying adaption for me at all. Maybe it's because my nature is always to ask "but why?" Which I know is strange coming from an atheist!

[Ryantology]

 When believers come on here and strike a condescending tone I get royally pissed off.  But when the person who holds those beliefs is as sensitive not to be provocative as she is, I can't understand the aggressive impulse some showed in this thread.  Of course being human and over reacting is always possible and understandable.

I think the condescension that comes from certain theists rubs off. Makes you expect it every time you have a discussion with any theist. So, you will have one that actually does downplay the immorality of rape (after all, there are verses in the Bible in which God is encouraging it), but it doesn't mean that every believer is okay with rape or defends it as a moral action.

The problem, to me, is not so much condoning rape, which LC is not doing. The problem is that the idea of 'free will' is really just a way to shift responsibility for the problem from the creator to the created. Being omni-everything includes being omni-responsible. Authority without responsibility is not authority at all. The 'fact' that humans have free will (and I've already pointed out a couple of flaws in that assertion) does not absolve higher authority from its responsibility.

[Losty]

But not at all too long given what you had to say, LadyFC.  I agree that the all-omni concept of God is shot through with contradictions.  It isn't just in the realm of morality.  But there is unavoidable dissonance in the realm of morality.  There aren't always good choices.  There are necessary evils.  So if one is saddled with literal-god belief, I suppose one just admits it is beyond their understanding and moves on.  Not a very satisfying adaption for most of us.

Looking back over the thread I couldn't help but feel that the agitation you and others exhibited about God's failure to live up to his billing just seemed excessive for a being we don't believe in.  When believers come on here and strike a condescending tone I get royally pissed off.  But when the person who holds those beliefs is as sensitive not to be provocative as she is, I can't understand the aggressive impulse some showed in this thread.  Of course being human and over reacting is always possible and understandable.

Yeah, it really came down to me just feeling like, " how could you say that you jerk!"  Which was totally unfair to her.  Even if I DID believe in God, she wouldn't be responsible for his asinine choices.  

And yeah, it's not a satisfying adaption for me at all.  Maybe it's because my nature is always to ask "but why?"  Which I know is strange coming from an atheist!  

I think "but why?" makes perfect sense for an atheist. Sometimes people say unfair things in a debate. Sometimes emotions get the best of us, especially in subjects like rape. But that's just life. I still think you were very respectful in your debating.

[robvalue]

But not at all too long given what you had to say, LadyFC.  I agree that the all-omni concept of God is shot through with contradictions.  It isn't just in the realm of morality.  But there is unavoidable dissonance in the realm of morality.  There aren't always good choices.  There are necessary evils.  So if one is saddled with literal-god belief, I suppose one just admits it is beyond their understanding and moves on.  Not a very satisfying adaption for most of us.

Looking back over the thread I couldn't help but feel that the agitation you and others exhibited about God's failure to live up to his billing just seemed excessive for a being we don't believe in.  When believers come on here and strike a condescending tone I get royally pissed off.  But when the person who holds those beliefs is as sensitive not to be provocative as she is, I can't understand the aggressive impulse some showed in this thread.  Of course being human and over reacting is always possible and understandable.

We do the theists the credit of pretending their beliefs have some merit, so getting angry about those beliefs is kind of a back-handed compliment.

It's the attitude towards things that are real that bothers me, even if the attitude comes via a load of nonsense. It's still the person's attitude.

God condones rape. God condones every evil act, because he could stop it, or indeed planned things so that they never would have happened in the first place. Theists are at a loss to explain the inaction, the excuses are many and feeble. I don't know how it doesn't hurt their brains. Making excuses for the most powerful and righteous being ever, supposedly, is a bit of a joke. I find a lot of theists carry around God like a fragile porcelain doll.

So the theist is stuck with not condoning evil acts themselves, but having to side with someone who does condone them. Yet another contradiction for them to try not to think about.