The main reason I'm an atheist

[TheRocketSurgeon]

I considered them as laughing because they did not have any honest intention of debating and gave no information, they are entirely made for the mere purpose of mockery.

Cut the bullshit, you dismissed them out of hand because they gave answers to your question which weren't your preferred answer, viz "yeah you're right, we should all bow down and worship yhwh because truly he is god". Even this early in your stint at this website it is obvious that you are not willing to properly engage with those who disagree with you no matter how strong their arguments.

Oh and I'll say one last thing before I go down to cook dinner, your god, the christian one, is an impossibility from the very standards laid out in the bible. There are two mutually contradictory creation stories in the very beginning one depicting a single god and the other a pantheon of god (Elohim literally means "the gods" note the plural), the attributes given to your god by the bible are mutually impossible (you cannot have all power and all knowledge, having the second constrains your power, because you cannot change what you know will happen, and having the first constrains your knowledge because if you can do anything you cannot know what you will do in the future), and most of the events described in the bible never happened (there never was an Egyptian captivity or exodus, never was a unified kingdom, "predictions" of jesus such as the "virgin" birth were either made up of thin air or deliberate mistranslations and misattributions and stories like the Legion demon or jesus' home being Nazareth get the geography massively wrong, the Nazareth one especially so as the town didn't exist until c4th century CE). Your god is a busted flush, and has been so for the last 150 years for anybody with ears to hear, eyes to see, and hands to touch.

There is evidence of the existence of Nazareth, some of which points to it having existed in the time of Jesus. I'm not a Jesus Mythicist, as you know, but I can see some of the arguments for it. That said, I'd be careful using the Nazareth claim.

Bart Ehrman on the subject:
http://ehrmanblog.org/did-nazareth-exist/

[Pat Mustard]

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I considered them as laughing because they did not have any honest intention of debating and gave no information, they are entirely made for the mere purpose of mockery.

I do not see your statements as correct. "Earth is insignificant even within our own solar system", that depends on how do you measure significance. In my opinion, the earth is the only significant part of the universe, since it is the place (known place) where God created humans in His image and likeness.

"There are literally billions of galaxies.", I did not know that, but I am not a follower of blank statements, and I need proof in order to believe things. Where did you get this information from?.

"And yet many people actually believe that god created the entire universe 6000 years ago, to house his pet humans", I believe exactly nothing of what you have posted here.

"The vastness of the universe seems (to me) to refute the concept of god that I knew as a child: as a sky-father who knew every thought in your head and freaked out when you said "god damn", the idea that you can actually do something to change God's emotions (as you said in "freaked out") is entirely made-up. God's can only feel love for you, and all the other feelings are born from the love He feels for you. If you believe "God" will get angry at someone for cursing you are not talking about the christian God at all, because, how can you believe that a created being can change an uncreated being?

"I have come to the point where I also believe that a deity is very unlikely to exist.  And that's where I am.", I see.

The picture you have posted gave no information to our cause. I need to know what means that "God make things happen just for you". What kind of things?

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"I considered them as laughing because they did not have any honest intention of debating and gave no information, they are entirely made for the mere purpose of mockery."
And I saw them as an excellent visual representation of my position.  I have no interest in debate, other than learning from members here who are better at that skill than I am.

I do not see your statements as correct. "Earth is insignificant even within our own solar system", that depends on how do you measure significance. In my opinion, the earth is the only significant part of the universe, since it is the place (known place) where God created humans in His image and likeness. 
-- And from the Voyager spacecraft at Saturn - are you actually unfamiliar with the "pale blue dot" image?  


"There are literally billions of galaxies.", I did not know that, but I am not a follower of blank statements, and I need proof in order to believe things.
The Hubble Ultra Deep Field project.  http://www.spacetelescope.org/science/deep_fields/
"The nearest galaxies seen in the Hubble Deep Field are about 2.5 billion light years away. The furthest are estimated to be about 10.5 billion light years away."

We will just have to agree to disagree.  Your assertions about god are useless to me - - you might as well be talking about leprechauns, sparkly vampires, or pink unicorns.  I do not believe that god exists.  The only thing that will change my mind is hard data.

And to further hammer your point home

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p86BPM1GV8M

[drfuzzy]

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We have a Muslim here named Mystic, nice enough guy, but he also posts large blocks of texts and BOLDs his naked assertions like you just did here. You may be the nicest person, but that doesn't make your god real anymore than when he does it.

How about YOU consider that it is merely something you were sold by someone else and something you merely want to be true?

You really are going to have a difficult time here trying to convince us. We've accepted the age of the planet and universe and the amount of galaxies in it based on scientific fact, not based on old books written by scientifically ignorant humans. It was understandable back then when humans didn't know any better, but we have much better tools to measure the nature of reality now.

Religion is pretending you can use a kaleidoscope in place of a telescope.

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"but that doesn't make your god real anymore than when he does it.", and how is that, exactly? I will never understand why most of the atheists stop when they hear the "multiple God argument", just like you did here: "How is your God better than his God?!". For me, this is poor science and an anti-intellectual attitude.

"How about YOU consider that it is merely something you were sold by someone else and something you merely want to be true?", I am asking this exact question to you.

"You really are going to have a difficult time here trying to convince us.", convincing you of what, exactly? I am not here in this forum to convince anyone, I am here for the mere pleasure of debate.

"We've accepted the age of the planet and universe and the amount of galaxies in it based on scientific fact, not based on old books written by scientifically ignorant humans.", exactly as I do, where did you get the assumption that I do not believe that the age of the galaxies and the amount of them are scientifical? What book are you talking about? What exactly were you trying to say here?

"Religion is pretending you can use a kaleidoscope in place of a telescope.", nice metaphor, I didn't know you liked poetry. But I do not accept blank statements so in order for me to believe you, you will have to deffend your phrase. If not, I will not.

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Oh the story of Adam and Eve does not explain how humans arrived. Evolution does.

But if you want to talk about the morality of that story, and it is just a story. It is a vile story. You have two innocent characters who were thrust into a position with no prior say going in and know knowledge to consent to what they got put into. God makes a bet with the Lucifer character and that puts the Adam and Eve characters as pawns, poker chips in a rigged bet they had no say in, and get punished for something they didn't set up in the first place.

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Empty statements everywhere, I see.

It is a cool story you told me here, I have never heard it before. Where can I get this information? My information about Adam and Eve come from the Sacred Scripture interpreted through the Sacred Tradition but it is nothing like that. Where can I get your information from?

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Oh and neither Christians or Jews are the only religions with creation myths. Oh and Jews, for your information depending on the individual or sect say Lilith, not Eve, was the first woman. But regardless, neither are not the only creation myths in the world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_creation_myths

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I was expecting for you to actually make a point here, but you didn't. Did you wanted to say something?

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Red bold:  SACRED SCRIPTURE!!!!      Oh thank you, I needed a good laugh. That filthy evil idiotic book is a lot of things, but it takes a real brainwashed moron to think it is in any way sacred.  I studied it for over forty years.  It's ok little boy, keep reading, you'll figure it out.

Blue bold: data.  Facts.  The information can be found everywhere online if you just take your head out of your stupid book of fairy tales that was not written by your imaginary friend.  Learn about real science.

[Wryetui]

I can see pretty well that here people do not actually want to learn anything, you have proven to be very aggresive to the views you do not agree with, and did what you knew best, as I see, mockery and ridiculizing. Collectively in this post I have seen that you have very wrong ideas about christianity and, the worst of all, you do not plan on learning about why they are wrong but rather shield yourselves against everything that will go against your beliefs. It is very curious, in my opinion, that you show exactly the same behavior as your fellow "christian" debaters, but that doesn't seem to bother you.

The german philosopher, Wilhelm Hegel, held an interesting idea: You have to be very attentive at the ideas that are contrary to yours because they, most likely, hold a truth inside them. It is very clear to me that your atheism show all the "garbage" that protestant and roman-catholic theology begot, and your atheism is the refutation of the God that is a product to said theology, that is why aggresiveness is shown in every each of you when talking about this said God.

I have the suspicion that men today believe in God more than at any other time in human history. Men know the gospel, the teaching of the Church, and God’s creation better than at any other time. They have a profound consciousness of His existence. Their atheism is not a real disbelief. It is rather an aversion toward somebody we know very well but whom we hate with all our heart, exactly as the demons do.

You hate God, that is you we ignore Him, overlooking Him as if you did not see Him, and pretending to be atheists. In reality you consider Him your enemy par excellence. Your negation is your vengeance, your atheism is your revenge. But why do you hate God? You hate Him not only because "your" deeds are dark while God is light, but also because you consider Him as a menace, as an imminent and eternal danger, as an adversary in court, as an opponent at law, as a public prosecutor and an eternal persecutor. To you, God is no more the almighty physician who came to save them from illness and death to you, but rather a cruel judge and a vengeful inquisitor.

You see, the devil managed to make men believe that God does not really love us, that He really only loves Himself, and that He accepts us only if we behave as He wants us to behave; that He hates us if we do not behave as He ordered us to behave, and is offended by our insubordination to such a degree that we must pay for it by eternal tortures, created by Him for that purpose.

Who can love a torturer? Even those who try hard to save themselves from the wrath of God cannot really love Him. They love only themselves, trying to escape God’s vengeance and to achieve eternal bliss by managing to please this fearsome and extremely dangerous Creator. Do you perceive the devil’s slander of our all loving, all kind, and absolutely good God? That is why in Greek the devil was given the name diabolos, “the slanderer”.

[KevinM1]

Wow, that's a lot of words for the tired "You don't actually disbelieve, you just want to sin" BS we've all heard and laughed at a million times before.

I dislike the Christian god as presented in the bible. I also dislike Nurse Ratched, Captain Ahab, and many more characters in other works of fiction. That doesn't mean I think they're real.

[ApeNotKillApe]

I can see pretty well that here people do not actually want to learn anything, you have proven to be very aggresive to the views you do not agree with, and did what you knew best, as I see, mockery and ridiculizing. Collectively in this post I have seen that you have very wrong ideas about christianity and, the worst of all, you do not plan on learning about why they are wrong but rather shield yourselves against everything that will go against your beliefs. It is very curious, in my opinion, that you show exactly the same behavior as your fellow "christian" debaters, but that doesn't seem to bother you.

[TheRocketSurgeon]

I can see pretty well that here people do not actually want to learn anything, you have proven to be very aggresive to the views you do not agree with, and did what you knew best, as I see, mockery and ridiculizing. Collectively in this post I have seen that you have very wrong ideas about christianity and, the worst of all, you do not plan on learning about why they are wrong but rather shield yourselves against everything that will go against your beliefs. It is very curious, in my opinion, that you show exactly the same behavior as your fellow "christian" debaters, but that doesn't seem to bother you.

If you say silly things, yes, we will mock you-- especially if you say them with the sort of certainty that only a brainwashed fanatic can muster. We do the same with Little Rik, whose ideas about his little sub-cult of Hinduism would make you laugh out loud, if you read them.

All of our ideas about Christianity are "wrong" because there are so many variants of Christianity. We can totally copy what the last Christian who came here said about the religion (or in most of our cases, what we were brought up believing), and you or the next one will claim we have it "totally wrong", and blame our atheism on a misunderstanding of the Bible even though it's exactly what the last Christian said was True Christianity™.

The german philosopher, Wilhelm Hegel, held an interesting idea: You have to be very attentive at the ideas that are contrary to yours because they, most likely, hold a truth inside them. It is very clear to me that your atheism show all the "garbage" that protestant and roman-catholic theology begot, and your atheism is the refutation of the God that is a product to said theology, that is why aggresiveness is shown in every each of you when talking about this said God.

I concur with Hegel about this. We do carefully read from multiple sources, listen to numerous witnesses, and have studied the Bible carefully, in most cases. We show "aggresiveness" because we're exhausted from having the same conversation, over and over again, with each new variety of theist telling us we're totally wrong (see above) and that THEIR version is correct, and then telling us totally false things about atheists/atheism. We'll get to that in a minute.

Some of us are more polite than others. I tend to be in that category, or at least I think I am. However, I've avoided engaging you because even I doubt I could hold in my temper as I watch your arrogance and ignorance splatter the screen, time and again. I am not saying this to insult you; this is what I have observed of your behavior, since you've been here.

I have the suspicion that men today believe in God more than at any other time in human history. Men know the gospel, the teaching of the Church, and God’s creation better than at any other time. They have a profound consciousness of His existence. Their atheism is not a real disbelief. It is rather an aversion toward somebody we know very well but whom we hate with all our heart, exactly as the demons do.

You hate God, that is you we ignore Him, overlooking Him as if you did not see Him, and pretending to be atheists. In reality you consider Him your enemy par excellence. Your negation is your vengeance, your atheism is your revenge. But why do you hate God? You hate Him not only because "your" deeds are dark while God is light, but also because you consider Him as a menace, as an imminent and eternal danger, as an adversary in court, as an opponent at law, as a public prosecutor and an eternal persecutor. To you, God is no more the almighty physician who came to save them from illness and death to you, but rather a cruel judge and a vengeful inquisitor.

"Atheism is not a real disbelief"?!? What. The. Frak. Is. That!?

We do not hate God any more than we hate Lord Voldemort or Darth Vader. I have read nearly everything in the StarWars canon and all of the Harry Potter books. I can discuss them at great length and in great detail... but I do not believe they are real, even when I'm pointing out to fans of Darth Vader that he slaughtered children and thus is not a good role-model or hero for them. You saying "you atheists just hate God" is as stupid as saying "you just hate Darth Vader". Nope. He's still a fictional character, and my only anger is directed at people who try to tell me that the SW books are real, and that I should/must base my life-decisions on the attitudes and philosophies of a Sith Lord.

We reject your God because we are moral people, and we find your Lord Yahweh of the Israelites to be a monster that makes Lords Vader and Voldemort look paltry by comparison. (Okay, Vader comes close, with only a shade less genocide and sexism.) Our enemy is not your sky fairy or anyone else's sky fairy, no matter what they call it. Our enemy is anyone who thinks that magic exists and dictates our lives, that their particular sky fairy has plans for my life that they must "help" enforce or pressure me into, and who fails to grasp why the Scientific Method of thinking is the only thing that will pull humanity out of the Stone/Bronze/Iron ages, in which such magical thinking was the norm.

You see, the devil managed to make men believe that God does not really love us, that He really only loves Himself, and that He accepts us only if we behave as He wants us to behave; that He hates us if we do not behave as He ordered us to behave, and is offended by our insubordination to such a degree that we must pay for it by eternal tortures, created by Him for that purpose.

Who can love a torturer? Even those who try hard to save themselves from the wrath of God cannot really love Him. They love only themselves, trying to escape God’s vengeance and to achieve eternal bliss by managing to please this fearsome and extremely dangerous Creator. Do you perceive the devil’s slander of our all loving, all kind, and absolutely good God? That is why in Greek the devil was given the name diabolos, “the slanderer”.

Other than the fact that you just compounded our laughter problem by adding a new fairy to your fairytale, I actually agree with you about the second paragraph. Those who worship only because of a "carrot and stick" approach are not really worshipers, but self-interested people. I would be interested to hear you explain your "hell is not real" theology, there, to a few of the other fundamentalists we get in here, so I could sit back and eat popcorn and watch the sparks (brimstone?) fly.

If you will note my signature line, that's exactly what I'm talking about in my rebuttal to one of your kind who tried to tell me that because I was a Christian (and thus "saved") for the first half of my life, I can't lose my salvation. But please keep in mind that even in that signature line, I am only reacting to your fairy tale story as if it was as real as you claim, not claiming I think it's legitimate. We reject your stories not out of anger but out of understanding. We compare the various versions, find their adherents to be equally fervent in their belief (and their reasons for same), and yet totally contradictory. We start to look at other religions and find the same. You cannot all be correct. We conclude that the most likely explanation is that it's ALL made up, and none of the god-fairytales are anything but the invention of humans.

Again, and I want to make this very clear: if people were going around living by Sith principles (I would argue that's what followers of Ayn Rand do, but that's a whole other conversation) and declaring that others should do the same, time and again, I'd be pretty pissed-off every time I met yet another of those Vaderians, in their myriad varieties, telling me that I'm not a Sith simply because I'm angry at false portrayals of Vader and that if I really accept that Vader is real (since, they say, I secretly DO believe in Vader), I will feel the power of the Force "in my heart" (etc). How would you react to a society that endlessly barraged you with that method? Be honest.

[KevinM1]

I find Padme to be somewhat culpable for what Anakin turned into since she comforted him after he slaughtered the Tuskin Raider village. I mean, yeah, it's terrible that his mom was kidnapped and tortured to death, but that doesn't justify eliminating the entire village.

[TheRocketSurgeon]

I find Padme to be somewhat culpable for what Anakin turned into since she comforted him after he slaughtered the Tuskin Raider village.  I mean, yeah, it's terrible that his mom was kidnapped and tortured to death, but that doesn't justify eliminating the entire village.

[KevinM1]

I find Padme to be somewhat culpable for what Anakin turned into since she comforted him after he slaughtered the Tuskin Raider village.  I mean, yeah, it's terrible that his mom was kidnapped and tortured to death, but that doesn't justify eliminating the entire village.