Did Jesus exist at all?

[TheRocketSurgeon]

1) It was "looking at the similarities between the religions" that made me realize they're all manmade fables.

2) I don't recall Jesus saying anything about those who "REALLY NEED IT", or specifying that only those who don't use drugs should be eligible for charity. Just puttin' that out there.

3) Congratulations, your "imagine if everyone on Earth did these good deeds" comment essentially summarized the entire idea of Secular Humanism. Humans make all the good (or evil) on earth happen, and there's no paradise awaiting us "someday" after we die, so it's incumbent upon us to make things better, to help those who cannot help themselves, and to share our planet as equals with equal rights and dignity.

I do not believe everything in the Bible is 100% accurate at face value. It is a puzzle like many other religions with missing pieces.
Luke14:13 But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind,   <- THE PEOPLE WHO REALLY NEED IT

Mark10:25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.

Ephesians 5:18 And do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery, but be filled with the Spirit,

Proverbs 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink a brawler, and whoever is led astray by it is not wise.

Galatians 5:21 Envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Timothy 3:3 Not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.

On your third statement. I believe at this moment in time that we are judged after death. There are a multitude of religions that mention judgement after death. Especially many of the earlier religions. I cannot rule out this belief.

Certain drugs do have benefits to humans. It is a complex subject if you want to go deep into it. E.g. If someone wants to stop taking Heroin who has a serious addiction and they stop cold turkey the side effects may cause serious damage or death. They would have to slowly decrease the dose. This is similar with many other drugs in that category.

Um, I was just joking, since your "night and day" statement really meant nothing. It was something we call "word salad". We don't "have night and day", night and day happen regardless of us (because the earth spins). The rest of it wasn't much better, I'm afraid. I was asking if you were high because that's the kind of pseudo-philosophical word salad one tends to hear from low-IQ stoners.

As for charity, I should hope we only give it to the poor and/or disabled. Kind of a silly concept, otherwise.

The common theme in "judgment after death" is that it's a fear tactic used to control the weak-minded with threats that never actually have to materialize, as far as the living people they (the priests/shamans/etc) are trying to control and influence are concerned. We use a similar tactic with our children: "Be good or Santa won't bring you any presents!"

With regard to drinking, I happen to agree that alcohol in large quantities (getting drunk) can cause many problems, and that it is a more dangerous drug than almost any of the banned ones. That said, I don't think my Humanist values allow me to punish people for what they do to themselves, as our current culture does. Christian teetotalers (e.g. the Women's Christian Temperance Movement) are the ones who got the 18th Amendment (Prohibition) passed, and even though I'm not a drinker, I loathe them for doing it. The prohibition of other drugs comes from a similar root--though more heavily based in racist policies of American lawmakers in the 1930s and the anti-counterculture Nixon administration in the early 70s--and has been similarly disastrous, resulting in the empowerment of smugglers and gangs, just as the Prohibition movement did. Worse, the modern-day anti-drug campaigns have been devastating to the poor and minority communities, with the rise of the Prison Industrial Complex in the wake of Nixon's "get those hippies and Black Panthers out of my hair" Drug War fallout.

If your religion tells you not to drink, tells you to wear a flowered bonnet on Sundays, and that the only acceptable garments are those without blended fibers (see Leviticus 19:19, if you think I'm joking about that one), then enjoy your self-imposed restrictions. But sadly, the religious seem unable to keep their beliefs to themselves, their restrictions amongst their own kind... and thus I must be harsh with people who seem to be advocating for such positions.

[Minimalist]

[/url][url=http://s4.photobucket.com/user/rschilla/media/sophisticated-religion.jpg.html]

[Love333]

I do not believe everything in the Bible is 100% accurate at face value. It is a puzzle like many other religions with missing pieces.
Luke14:13 But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind,   <- THE PEOPLE WHO REALLY NEED IT

Mark10:25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.

Ephesians 5:18 And do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery, but be filled with the Spirit,

Proverbs 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink a brawler, and whoever is led astray by it is not wise.

Galatians 5:21 Envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Timothy 3:3 Not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.

On your third statement. I believe at this moment in time that we are judged after death. There are a multitude of religions that mention judgement after death. Especially many of the earlier religions. I cannot rule out this belief.

Certain drugs do have benefits to humans. It is a complex subject if you want to go deep into it. E.g. If someone wants to stop taking Heroin who has a serious addiction and they stop cold turkey the side effects may cause serious damage or death. They would have to slowly decrease the dose. This is similar with many other drugs in that category.

Um, I was just joking, since your "night and day" statement really meant nothing. It was something we call "word salad". We don't "have night and day", night and day happen regardless of us (because the earth spins). The rest of it wasn't much better, I'm afraid. I was asking if you were high because that's the kind of pseudo-philosophical word salad one tends to hear from low-IQ stoners.

As for charity, I should hope we only give it to the poor and/or disabled. Kind of a silly concept, otherwise.

The common theme in "judgment after death" is that it's a fear tactic used to control the weak-minded with threats that never actually have to materialize, as far as the living people they (the priests/shamans/etc) are trying to control and influence are concerned. We use a similar tactic with our children: "Be good or Santa won't bring you any presents!"

With regard to drinking, I happen to agree that alcohol in large quantities (getting drunk) can cause many problems, and that it is a more dangerous drug than almost any of the banned ones. That said, I don't think my Humanist values allow me to punish people for what they do to themselves, as our current culture does. Christian teetotalers (e.g. the Women's Christian Temperance Movement) are the ones who got the 18th Amendment (Prohibition) passed, and even though I'm not a drinker, I loathe them for doing it. The prohibition of other drugs comes from a similar root--though more heavily based in racist policies of American lawmakers in the 1930s and the anti-counterculture Nixon administration in the early 70s--and has been similarly disastrous, resulting in the empowerment of smugglers and gangs, just as the Prohibition movement did. Worse, the modern-day anti-drug campaigns have been devastating to the poor and minority communities, with the rise of the Prison Industrial Complex in the wake of Nixon's "get those hippies and Black Panthers out of my hair" Drug War fallout.

If your religion tells you not to drink, tells you to wear a flowered bonnet on Sundays, and that the only acceptable garments are those without blended fibers (see Leviticus 19:19, if you think I'm joking about that one), then enjoy your self-imposed restrictions. But sadly, the religious seem unable to keep their beliefs to themselves, their restrictions amongst their own kind... and thus I must be harsh with people who seem to be advocating for such positions.

I see you have a certain amount of knowledge on politics, religions, and drugs. Once again I respect your time to reply to me.

Giving to charity is a very profound concept. "Silly" so quick to condemn? 

 Warren Buffet has an estimated 60 Billion dollars. There are people in this world who own Trillions who are not mentioned by media. Imagine if they truly gave their money to the poor. Unemployment is rising throughout the world & the rich keep getting richer. Maybe this could be broken if we all helped each other out...

The thoughts on this matter are like penetrating the center of an apple. It is difficult to explain the contents of a book when it is easier to make a decision on whether you like it based on the cover.  Let's say there is a man walking down a path that splits into 2 paths. Which one is the right one. the smooth and easy path or the confusing unknown one he has not traveled down yet?

[Minimalist]

Maybe this could be broken if we all helped each other out...

I can see you are not a republican.

[Love333]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6qwP7reus0

I am just as much a Democrat as I am Republican

[Pat Mustard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6qwP7reus0

I am just as much a Democrat as I am Republican

Fuck me, scooby's knitted a sock.

[The Grand Nudger]

This doesn't mean that other books don't have a clear political agenda, just that the Pentateuch is not the production of vested interests and fiction writers.

It was the production of a bunch of altruistic news reporters, was it?  Stop, lol.  OFC it was the production of fiction writers with vested interests...but so what...what is it you're trying to avoid by arguing against such dry facts as the fictional status of magical narratives...or the origin of fictional stories as being human creativity? You couldn't even keep it together in that single sentence trying to defend -whatever it is- you're defending. You acknowledged a vested interest in the text...an then claimed that this interest was what...non-functional?

Myths don't escape the usual behavior of the myth-makers. Stories are stories. Yes, they work like that. Suppose there was a jesus...assume that to be true for no reason - like we do-. So what, the mythmakers and legend builders -still- had a long go at him. What is presented to us in the text could very well be entirely unrelated to that original kernel of a character. It's pointless to tell me that doesn't happen, that myth doesn;t work like that - because we've seen it happen in modern times with cargo cults and their mythmaking apparatus. Unless you think that the stories of a divine king with cargo in his magical ships is non-fiction...no one made it up, and the construction of all of those ceremonial runways, docks, piers and plane effigies wasn't a pure manifestation of a vested interest.

[Redbeard The Pink]

This doesn't mean that other books don't have a clear political agenda, just that the Pentateuch is not the production of vested interests and fiction writers.

It was the production of a bunch of altruistic news reporters, was it?  Stop, lol.  OFC it was the production of fiction writers with vested interests...but so what...what is it you're trying to avoid by arguing against such dry facts as the fictional status of magical narratives...or the origin of fictional stories as being human creativity? You couldn't even keep it together in that single sentence trying to defend -whatever it is- you're defending. You acknowledged a vested interest in the text...an then claimed that this interest was what...non-functional?

Myths don't escape the usual behavior of the myth-makers. Stories are stories. Yes, they work like that. Suppose there was a jesus...assume that to be true for no reason - like we do-. So what, the mythmakers and legend builders -still- had a long go at him. What is presented to us in the text could very well be entirely unrelated to that original kernel of a character. It's pointless to tell me that doesn't happen, that myth doesn;t work like that - because we've seen it happen in modern times with cargo cults and their mythmaking apparatus. Unless you think that the stories of a divine king with cargo in his magical ships is non-fiction...no one made it up, and the construction of all of those ceremonial runways, docks, piers and plane effigies wasn't a pure manifestation of a vested interest.

Rake is more attached to the historicity of Jesus Christ the Pre-Nazareth Nazarene than most Bible-thumpers I've met. I'm still not sure if it's more funny or more sad.

[The Grand Nudger]

There just doesn't seem to be much to attach to.  Remove the myth of christ....remove the legendary jesus, what remains?  A guy who perched himself somewhere and yelled at onlookers, maybe. That sounds like a description of the homeless worldwide - or not. I'm not sure how it adds confidence to the historicity of -any- particular or detail of the narrative.

[Mudhammam]

I'm not sure how it adds confidence to the historicity of -any- particular or detail of the narrative.

You mean, I think, the particulars or details that allow interested persons to formulate a rational understanding of the circumstances that led to Christian thought dominating Europe for 2,000 years... in which case such mundane and seemingly insignificant facts are the ends in which we find all investigations into cult leaders who have ever hidden behind a facade to conclude.