Dr. Craig is a liar.

[abaris]

Never mind how long? But that's the whole point isn't it? I believe that the earth has been around far longer than 6000 years, that isn't what a yec believes.

The same. As long as you believe in humans being created right at the start as some kind of masterpiece. Again, correct me, if I'm wrong.

[Huggy Bear]

I've BEEN correcting you, you just refuse to see it.

Young Earth creationism (YEC) is the religious belief that the Universe, Earth and all life on Earth were created by direct acts of God during a relatively short period, between 5,700 and 10,000 years ago.

I've explained to you multiple times that isn't what I believe, so draw whatever conclusion you want.

[TheRocketSurgeon]

We should probably listen to what Huggy says he does and does not believe. After all, we spend a lot of time correcting Christians (etc) who try to tell us what we "really" believe.

Though I realize Huggy has expressed... let's call it "extreme"... discontent with the Theory of Evolution, I know a great many Christians who think that the Garden of Eden is a metaphor which represents the pre-Agricultural Revolution earth, when the Hunter-Gatherer humans were more like our animal ancestors, living according to the providence of God through nature, and that the act of defiance (knowing/determining for ourselves what was good and evil) was to break away from the Laws of Nature and Nature's God (as our Founders put it) and live "by the sweat of our own brow", forever having to till the soil, and so on. They see Creation as an ongoing act, and acknowledge that while 13.77 billion years is a looooong time to us, it's nothing to a being that exists outside of Space-Time.

I'm not sure to what degree Huggy accepts the metaphorical nature of all creation mythologies, or how he feels about the ongoing act of Creation (rather than an instant, magical one), but I do know that when he says "I do not believe that", it's fucked up for an atheist to tell him what he "really" believes.

Seriously guys, don't do that.

[The Reality Salesman01]

So...do you or do you not know things about God's essence?

I believe I already stated my position on that.

I know nothing more than what the bible states.

I'm done going in circles with you.

This is like our 3rd exchange. I haven't written paragraphs for you to respond to in essay form. I'm literally asking you 1-2 questions that require 1-3 word responses and you're kinda being a drama queen.

[The Reality Salesman01]

@Rocket Surgeon,

I'm trying to ask him in the plainest form I can and I think it's confusing him. He just accused me of going in circles. We've barely had enough correspondence to make a triangle let alone multiple circles!

[robvalue]

As an aside:

Christians apparently interact with God, yet they can't agree on whether the garden of Eden story was literal or metaphorical. How can they not agree? Doesn't God even know which it is? Does God give different answers to different people? What kind of relationship are they having where they can't establish a simple fact like this?

Either it happened or it didn't, it's not subjective for each person.

[Huggy Bear]

@Rocket Surgeon,

I'm trying to ask him in the plainest form I can and I think it's confusing him. He just accused me of going in circles. We've barely had enough correspondence to make a triangle let alone multiple circles!

Allow me to demonstrate:

---

I don't presume to know what the essence of God is, I haven't reached that level of arrogance just yet.

Oh ok. For a second there I thought you actually knew what you're talking about. Thank for clearing that up.

Snide comments all you got?

As for the original point I believe I demonstrated that time and timelessness can both exist based on point of view. The essence of God has nothing to do with that point

How do you know what God's essence has to do or does not have to do with-without knowing anything about it? I'm really confused here...

So, eternal and timelessness are not part of God's essence, or are you just saying that you don't know anymore?

P.S.
If you find yourself insisting to your audience that you already demonstrated something, you didn't demonstrate it very well.  Try demonstrating it and let the responses dictate whether or not you did what you think you did. Or, you can just wait for your turn to speak, the choice obviously yours.  Please don't spew a long response, try and make the point you hope to make about the above comments and lets push through this...

If you Go back and look at my original post, you'd see that I was responding to this quote.

You are correct, there is nothing incoherent about a "timeline," UNLESS you are idiotic enough to insist that one of those states on the timeline is... timeless!

EDIT: And it is equally ridiculous to assert that one of those elements on the timeline is actually prior to the beginning of the timeline itself.

Do you see God mentioned anywhere? So God's essence isn't in question, the issue is whether or not "time" and "timelessness" can both exist, which they can seeing how time is relative.

So...do you or do you not know things about God's essence?

---

*emphasis mine*
The answer to your last question brings us right back to the beginning, hence going in circles.

[Jehanne]

@Rocket Surgeon,

I'm trying to ask him in the plainest form I can and I think it's confusing him. He just accused me of going in circles. We've barely had enough correspondence to make a triangle let alone multiple circles!

Allow me to demonstrate:

---

I don't presume to know what the essence of God is, I haven't reached that level of arrogance just yet.

---

*emphasis mine*
The answer to your last question brings us right back to the beginning, hence going in circles.

What do you want from us?

[The Reality Salesman01]

@Rocket Surgeon,

I'm trying to ask him in the plainest form I can and I think it's confusing him. He just accused me of going in circles. We've barely had enough correspondence to make a triangle let alone multiple circles!

Allow me to demonstrate:

I don't presume to know what the essence of God is, I haven't reached that level of arrogance just yet.

*emphasis mine*
The answer to your last question brings us right back to the beginning, hence going in circles.

Ok, we're half way there. I was confused, because in the first part of that post, you also said that God was eternal and timeless, but you haven't explained how you can know this and not know this at the same time. Remember? You said that my pointing out the contradiction in your statements was a "snide comment" and you've been filibustering ever since.

[The Reality Salesman01]

God is eternal, which is the very definition of timeless (no beginning and no end) since it cant be measured.

You listed two very abstract and supernatural qualities. You then attributed them to "God". Either you know what God's essence is and can affirm that these qualities have/do not have to do with his essence, or you do not know anything about God's essence and should refrain from ascribing properties to God and giving it names...such as God.

I don't presume to know what the essence of God is, I haven't reached that level of arrogance just yet.

Contradiction to the statement at the top which, coincidentally, came from the exact same post on the timeline. You're kind of in a box here, bro. Try something new...humility, perhaps? Honesty, maybe?