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(July 27, 2016 at 1:33 am)Tiberius Wrote: No, because the DNC screwed over Sanders numerous times and actively tried to sabotage his campaign. The DNC chair resigned and immediately got a job with Clinton's campaign. If anything, that's a promotion, because it will inevitably lead to a position in Clinton's administration.
If the DNC want the votes of the people they betrayed, they will need to do better than that. As I said, they need to stop calling for unity and start groveling. DWS needs to be removed from the campaign as well. As long as she's around, the campaign is poisoned.
Only idiots will vote for Trump. After all, there are only two options from which to choose, unless you think the majority will magically write in Bernie's name. Good luck with that. Seriously, learn that a dem is always better than a repub.
A poisoned dem campaign as opposed to a poisoned repub campaign?
How are you this dumb?
1. I don't recall anybody in this topic saying that they are going to vote for Donald Trump. I hate this insinuation that if you think Clinton is a piece of poo (which I think she is) you must be a Trump voter. Donald is a piece of poo too. Can't we talk about how rubbish Hilary is too? It's her own fault her poll numbers are so bad - not the fault of anybody else.
2. There are more than two options: four candidates are on the ballot in enough states to theoretically win the presidency. That's right, people don't have to vote for Clinton or Trump. If the other two candidates weren't there, I suspect millions more people would stay at home rather than vote for the poo they've been given.
3. If one lives in a safe state for either Clinton or Trump, as Tiberius has said they do, there is no need to vote for Clinton. I know that makes a lot of the Clinton Congregation butthurt...because how dare somebody not vote for Clinton and refuse to participate in the Groupthink...
4. I imagine upset Bernie supporters will vote for Jill Stein rather than write in Bernie. Why would they vote for a party that has treated them like dirt? The Democratic party only has itself to blame if Trump enters the Oval Office.
(July 27, 2016 at 2:29 am)MrNoMorePropaganda Wrote: 1. I don't recall anybody in this topic saying that they are going to vote for Donald Trump. I hate this insinuation that if you think Clinton is a piece of poo (which I think she is) you must be a Trump voter. Donald is a piece of poo too. Can't we talk about how rubbish Hilary is too? It's her own fault her poll numbers are so bad - not the fault of anybody else.
Agreed. I don't see it as if you're against Hillary you're for Trump. Hillary has done some shit things. She's also done some great things. The DNC is a pile of garbage and needs to be rooted out. The party platform and bylines happen to support my worldview and a lot of the things I stand for. Personally, for me, the DNC =/= the Democratic Party.
(July 27, 2016 at 2:29 am)MrNoMorePropaganda Wrote: 2. There are more than two options: four candidates are on the ballot in enough states to theoretically win the presidency. That's right, people don't have to vote for Clinton or Trump. If the other two candidates weren't there, I suspect millions more people would stay at home rather than vote for the poo they've been given.
3. If one lives in a safe state for either Clinton or Trump, as Tiberius has said they do, there is no need to vote for Clinton. I know that makes a lot of the Clinton Congregation butthurt...because how dare somebody not vote for Clinton and refuse to participate in the Groupthink...
I'm 100% on board with this. If you are in Massachusetts, or Vermont, or Oregon or Washington State, I think voting third party is smart. I would do it, too. When I talk to people in swing states (Like FL), my argument changes. I get that people don't like the candidate or the party structure. I don't either. I am not going to cut off my nose despite my face.
(July 27, 2016 at 2:29 am)MrNoMorePropaganda Wrote: 4. I imagine upset Bernie supporters will vote for Jill Stein rather than write in Bernie. Why would they vote for a party that has treated them like dirt? The Democratic party only has itself to blame if Trump enters the Oval Office.
I agree. They took a slam dunk campaign and turned it into a rat race. The party fucked up. I still stand by liberal principles.
Hillary has tarnished her reputation permanently. I do not believe for a second that she is the best candidate for the Democratic Party. At the very same time I do not believe that even without the DNC's collusion, Bernie would have won. That saddens me, but I think it's the truth. I also believe that despite all of the selfish shit she's done with this campaign, she has done a lot of things to help every community she's been a part of, done work for minorities since the 70's, her work for children/families in unassailable, and this, to me, buys her some skin in my book as a champion of liberal values. I will vote for that, in my state.
"There remain four irreducible objections to religious faith: that it wholly misrepresents the origins of man and the cosmos, that because of this original error it manages to combine the maximum servility with the maximum of solipsism, that it is both the result and the cause of dangerous sexual repression, and that it is ultimately grounded on wish-thinking." ~Christopher Hitchens, god is not Great
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(July 27, 2016 at 2:29 am)MrNoMorePropaganda Wrote: 1. I don't recall anybody in this topic saying that they are going to vote for Donald Trump. I hate this insinuation that if you think Clinton is a piece of poo (which I think she is) you must be a Trump voter. Donald is a piece of poo too. Can't we talk about how rubbish Hilary is too? It's her own fault her poll numbers are so bad - not the fault of anybody else.
Agreed. I don't see it as if you're against Hillary you're for Trump. Hillary has done some shit things. She's also done some great things. The DNC is a pile of garbage and needs to be rooted out. The party platform and bylines happen to support my worldview and a lot of the things I stand for. Personally, for me, the DNC =/= the Democratic Party.
(July 27, 2016 at 2:29 am)MrNoMorePropaganda Wrote: 2. There are more than two options: four candidates are on the ballot in enough states to theoretically win the presidency. That's right, people don't have to vote for Clinton or Trump. If the other two candidates weren't there, I suspect millions more people would stay at home rather than vote for the poo they've been given.
3. If one lives in a safe state for either Clinton or Trump, as Tiberius has said they do, there is no need to vote for Clinton. I know that makes a lot of the Clinton Congregation butthurt...because how dare somebody not vote for Clinton and refuse to participate in the Groupthink...
I'm 100% on board with this. If you are in Massachusetts, or Vermont, or Oregon or Washington State, I think voting third party is smart. I would do it, too. When I talk to people in swing states (Like FL), my argument changes. I get that people don't like the candidate or the party structure. I don't either. I am not going to cut off my nose despite my face.
(July 27, 2016 at 2:29 am)MrNoMorePropaganda Wrote: 4. I imagine upset Bernie supporters will vote for Jill Stein rather than write in Bernie. Why would they vote for a party that has treated them like dirt? The Democratic party only has itself to blame if Trump enters the Oval Office.
I agree. They took a slam dunk campaign and turned it into a rat race. The party fucked up. I still stand by liberal principles.
Hillary has tarnished her reputation permanently. I do not believe for a second that she is the best candidate for the Democratic Party. At the very same time I do not believe that even without the DNC's collusion, Bernie would have won. That saddens me, but I think it's the truth. I also believe that despite all of the selfish shit she's done with this campaign, she has done a lot of things to help every community she's been a part of, done work for minorities since the 70's, her work for children/families in unassailable, and this, to me, buys her some skin in my book as a champion of liberal values. I will vote for that, in my state.
"At the very same time I do not believe that even without the DNC's collusion, Bernie would have won."
We'll never know now. Unless we find a way to travel between timelines. The TV news media, some of which is owned by big Clinton donors, also played its part.
I believe Time Warner Cable would have done their best to be biased in favour of Clinton even if they DNC weren't. At least with Fox News you know they are biased in a certain way. The wort kinds of media are media outlets that pretend as if they are unbiased whilst being very biased.
CNN say they are the most trust name in news right? But they are owned by a company that has donated millions to the Clintons so they have an incentive to be very biased. With that said, I expect to see bills curtailing Internet freedoms to surface if Clinton becomes president. After all, Time Warner Cable loved SOPA (and PIPA).
I see it like this: if you're against Hilary, what other choice is there for you in terms of voting? Will you not vote, will you put in a dumbass name instead of voting for either candidate?
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
~ Erin Hunter
July 27, 2016 at 3:10 am (This post was last modified: July 27, 2016 at 3:14 am by ReptilianPeon.)
And, just to add, the DNC being biased adds credence to the notion that election fraud was committed. So I think people are right in saying Bernie should have received more delegates given the exit polling discrepancies. People need to fight against electronic voting as a matter of priority.
As the below says, people in the UK still vote using pencils (because people are paranoid about invisible ink). And those pencils are physically attached to the polling booth and there is no online voting. Voting machines are dangerous and ones used in the United States aren't even using open source software so you can't know what the code is doing. The UK takes the democratic process far more seriously than the United States.
You're right, we'll never know. But I do know that he lost by nearly 4 million votes, and he only got 13 million votes in the primary elections. That's nearly 33% of his total votes. I just don't see what the DNC did, what the news media did as making that big a difference.
I don't think we need e-voting, although I wouldn't be against it. I am not as paranoid as some.
What we need is automatic voter registration when you turn 18. You should do all of the paperwork at the same time you register with Selective Service in High School, your Driver's License should also be your voter ID.
Election Day should be a National Holiday on par with Christmas. No one works before 3pm.
I would support voting being mandatory, at least in November elections, but I can see what the problems with that are.
"There remain four irreducible objections to religious faith: that it wholly misrepresents the origins of man and the cosmos, that because of this original error it manages to combine the maximum servility with the maximum of solipsism, that it is both the result and the cause of dangerous sexual repression, and that it is ultimately grounded on wish-thinking." ~Christopher Hitchens, god is not Great
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(July 27, 2016 at 3:04 am)Maelstrom Wrote: I see it like this: if you're against Hilary, what other choice is there for you in terms of voting? Will you not vote, will you put in a dumbass name instead of voting for either candidate?
Dude, there are two other candidates running for president: Dr. Jill Stein for the Green Party, and Governor Gary Johnson of the Libertarian Party. You could vote for either of those.
"There remain four irreducible objections to religious faith: that it wholly misrepresents the origins of man and the cosmos, that because of this original error it manages to combine the maximum servility with the maximum of solipsism, that it is both the result and the cause of dangerous sexual repression, and that it is ultimately grounded on wish-thinking." ~Christopher Hitchens, god is not Great
PM me your email address to join the Slack chat! I'll give you a taco(or five) if you join!--->There's an app and everything!<---
July 27, 2016 at 5:56 am (This post was last modified: July 27, 2016 at 6:00 am by ReptilianPeon.)
1. About two million votes not counted in California
2. Purges of voters from the system. Several lawsuits relate to people being denied the right to vote. E.g. Election Justice USA.
3. Up 2/3 of polling places closed in some states, including Rhode Island and Arizona. This created massive lines in some places. Also, you had Mr. Clinton inside some polling stations in key states when campaigning is not allowed inside polling stations (and within 150ft of one in Massachusetts). He was never charged with criminality despite blatantly breaking election laws in several states by being inside polling places are creating more lines.
4. Trillions of dollars are affected by the outcomes of elections. There is massive incentive to have voting machines hacked or sneakily switch USB sticks. Millions of votes could be changed with a few clicks. Paper ballots, pencils and hand counting are best.
(July 27, 2016 at 3:04 am)Maelstrom Wrote: I see it like this: if you're against Hilary, what other choice is there for you in terms of voting? Will you not vote, will you put in a dumbass name instead of voting for either candidate?
Dude, there are two other candidates running for president: Dr. Jill Stein for the Green Party, and Governor Gary Johnson of the Libertarian Party. You could vote for either of those.
July 27, 2016 at 10:00 am (This post was last modified: July 27, 2016 at 10:02 am by Tiberius.)
(July 27, 2016 at 1:35 am)Maelstrom Wrote: Only idiots will vote for Trump. After all, there are only two options from which to choose, unless you think the majority will magically write in Bernie's name. Good luck with that. Seriously, learn that a dem is always better than a repub.
A poisoned dem campaign as opposed to a poisoned repub campaign?
How are you this dumb?
Only two options from which to choose?!? How are you this dumb that you think you can lecture people about politics when you can't even count the number of candidates? There are 4 major parties which are on the ballot in a large number of states (Democrats, Republicans, Libertarians, Greens), and then there are at least 16 other minor parties which are on the ballot in a few states.
There are *plenty* of options to choose from. Now, not all options have a realistic chance of winning, but in the US political system, winning isn't the only thing that's important. If any party gets 5% of the popular vote, they get access to federal election funding in the next election. There's a real chance of that happening this year for the Libertarians and quite possibly the Greens.
Since the President isn't elected by popular vote, but instead by the electoral college, people in non-swing states, especially if the state is expected to elect a Democrat or a Republican in a landslide, can safely cast their vote for a third party and not affect the outcome of the election at all.
I'm sick of hearing that if I'm against Hillary, I'm somehow pro-Trump. I despise them both, I don't think either would make a good President. I'm allowed to have that opinion. I'm allowed to support a third party. Vote however you want, but my vote is my vote, not yours.
(July 27, 2016 at 1:41 am)Maelstrom Wrote: And Bernie still supports Hillary. *drops mike*
I'm not Bernie Sanders. I would have supported writing in Sanders, but it's clear that he doesn't want that, so I'll respect the man enough not to do it or encourage it, but I won't vote Clinton or support voting Clinton unless you're in a swing state and you want to avoid Trump.
