If free will was not real

[Aegon]

Well, if the only things certain in life are death and taxes, then I'd say I'm paying for my will. (Thanks Obama.)

[Excited Penguin]

Other than the nagging fact that it isn't in evidence, as determinism is?  IDK.  

Don't let that get in the way, though, seek out and serve whatever you feel your fate to be, it probably won't make a difference in your life, such as it is.  

Rhythm, what's with the winks lately? 

Are trying to make a new friend or something?

[Silver]

. . . and they are not done with free will.

Boo on you.

Do you even understand the difference between voluntary and involuntary actions when it comes to the human body?

Basic anatomy.

Learn it.

[The Grand Nudger]

Just trying to remind people that I'm a jolly bearded idiot (with drink in hand)...because the things I -say- are aggressive and unfriendly...and it;s impossible to determine tone over the internet.

Benny, for example, knows this about me(which is why he and I can disagree so epicly and still be buddies). The rest of you cocksuckers don't.

[Excited Penguin]

You can be yourself with me, even though the winks are kind of nice. They give your posts a certain charm, certainly.

[bennyboy]

. . . and they are not done with free will.

Boo on you.

Do you even understand the difference between voluntary and involuntary actions when it comes to the human body?

Basic anatomy.

Learn it.

Dude, do you even LIFT?

Wait. . . wrong thread.

[bennyboy]

Just trying to remind people that I'm a jolly bearded idiot (with drink in hand)...because the things I -say- are aggressive and unfriendly...and it;s impossible to determine tone over the internet.

Benny, for example, knows this about me(which is why he and I can disagree so epicly and still be buddies).  The rest of you cocksuckers don't.

Buddies?  Just "buddies?"  After all I've put up with?!

[Gemini]

What is happening in the brain of someone with a gun pointed at them that is different from the same brain imagining its future state after choosing the chocolate cake?

The differences you would see with neuroimaging.

How is having a gun pointed at my head not just another decision to be made?  I fail to see the distinction between the two decisions is anything more than an artifact of your definition.  You could define free will as making decisions in the absence of Bobo the clown, simply making a definition doesn't imbue the situation with metaphysical properties it didn't have before the definition.

The kind of classic compatibilism I'm arguing for isn't a metaphysical position. We aren't suggesting that the definition imbues the situation with metaphysical properties. We do believe that freedom from duress/coercion by other agents is more salient to agent autonomy than the absence of Bobo the clown.

If our will isn't free under 'duress' then it isn't free under ordinary thought processes either.  You say that being free from duress/coercion is a real property that human beings can have.  I'm not seeing the 'real' part of it in the brain.  Just decisions.  Gun, no gun.  Cake, no cake.  It's all the same in the brain.

It's not metaphysically free, in the sense of contra-causal free will, no. Is there a difference is how the causal process of making a decision to eat cake vs. making a decision with a gun pointed at your head is experienced? I should hope so; so long as you're not conflating determinism with fatalism, there should be a difference in the way these decisions are experienced.

Likewise, if, for example, a bank employee emptied out several accounts she was entrusted with, it will make a tremendous difference in how we react to that whether there was gun pointed at her head or whether she made the decision free from duress. Compatibilists aren't arguing that the latter case justifies retributive punishment, but it does require that we take action toward this agent that we wouldn't if she was acting under duress.

Again, these distinctions are meaningful in these types of contexts, and that's what compatibilists are pointing out.

[Gemini]

Just trying to remind people that I'm a jolly bearded idiot (with drink in hand)...because the things I -say- are aggressive and unfriendly...and it;s impossible to determine tone over the internet.

Benny, for example, knows this about me(which is why he and I can disagree so epicly and still be buddies).  The rest of you cocksuckers don't.

Hey, this cocksucker knows it.