Sexism/feminism: what's your reaction to this song?

[paulpablo]

If she's trying to be on the moral high ground then obviously she fails.

It's like she's battling sexual objectification with age prejudice.  

But it's just a song, so she might just be telling a story about some old guy who she doesn't deem to be worthy of fertilizing her young ovaries. 

That story is a timeless classic.

[Whateverist]

Passing thought: I wonder to what degree pointing out that all sexism is bad when women's issues comes up is like insisting all lives matter when the value of black lives comes up. Historically those groups have had it worst and deal with more cultural baggage. Is it ever okay for all parties to give their attention to the needs of the groups treated the worst historically without being sure to give equal time to the manner in which the oppressor is himself oppressed?

[Seraphina]

Well I haven't scrolled through the thread yet because I don't want to read the usual "Who does that fucking bitch think she is, saying what's on her mind? How dare she?!" I've heard enough of that garbage for a lifetime.

If the thread isn't running along those lines, would someone please let me know.

I feel what she sang in the song and yes I watched the entire video.
I'm older now, thankfully, and I'm always with my child now when I'm out in public but from about age 15 to mid-late 30s, I was treated to a whole lot of catcalls, getting followed by strangers, strange men offering their personal opinion on my appearance, getting groped by strangers, you name it. I got sick of just being viewed as a pair of tits and an ass. I'm not exactly a model but young women of every type have to put up with that. So stop it.

Gawd, I fear for my daughter. I wonder what shit she'll have to start dealing with in a couple years.

And if you're a parent of a son, teach them to respect women.

[Mermaid]

We have a serious cultural problem here. I think we are more compelled than ever to make a black or white judgment about almost everything, and I think this is a product of social media.

Why is it that people who do not belong to a certain group feel that it's ok to make a value judgment about that group? Specifically, how can someone who is white possibly understand what it is like to go through life as a black person? How can a woman possibly understand what it's like to go through life as a man, and more specific to this very thread, how can a man make a judgment about what women go through and feel in everyday life?

Can't we quit judging and taking everything personally and just observe what is going on and listen to people!?

You have my attention.  Speaking on the behalf of all women everywhere and for all time, how do you feel about being called dearie and what not by strangers - even strange old men?

I can't do that. I can only speak on behalf of me.

Being called honey and dear and other like names can be nice and endearing. It can also be a humiliating or degrading powerplay. Comments about my physical appearance from basically everyone make me want to crawl into a hole.

[paulpablo]

Passing thought: I wonder to what degree pointing out that all sexism is bad when women's issues comes up is like insisting all lives matter when the value of black lives comes up.  Historically those groups have had it worst and deal with more cultural baggage.  Is it ever okay for all parties to give their attention to the needs of the groups treated the worst historically without being sure to give equal time to the manner in which the oppressor is himself oppressed?

My answer to the questions.

Yes saying all sexism is bad is similar to saying all lives matter.

It is sometimes OK for people to give attention to groups of people who have been treated worse than others historically without thinking if the specific groups of people doing the oppressing are oppressed.

Although I'd personally consider it to be racist/sexist to just lump all white males together as being "the oppressor" 

You can't call one entire group of people the oppressed/oppressors based on their race or gender.

[Whateverist]

Yeah, I get that. But I think it is okay to cop to the advantages I have for being neither black nor female, even if I personally have never acted in a way which could be seen as oppressive to those groups.

[paulpablo]

Yeah, I get that.  But I think it is okay to cop to the advantages I have for being neither black nor female, even if I personally have never acted in a way which could be seen as oppressive to those groups.

Well yeh me too.  If I'm in a situation where I know I just received an advantage for being a man, or not being black, then I'll accept it.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Passing thought: I wonder to what degree pointing out that all sexism is bad when women's issues comes up is like insisting all lives matter when the value of black lives comes up.  Historically those groups have had it worst and deal with more cultural baggage.  Is it ever okay for all parties to give their attention to the needs of the groups treated the worst historically without being sure to give equal time to the manner in which the oppressor is himself oppressed?

I don't know that the time needs to be equal, but I think it's fair to mention, if only in passing. Much depends on context as to whether that is simply acknowledging a basic fact, or a tu quoque justification.

[Arkilogue]

Yeah, I get that.  But I think it is okay to cop to the advantages I have for being neither black nor female, even if I personally have never acted in a way which could be seen as oppressive to those groups.

Do you have those same advantages in Sudan? Or Saudi Arabia? Or China?

Do blacks have any greater advantage in physical sports because of their evolutionary adaptation to the harsh African environment? Aren't the "races" relatively inseparable from the environment/geographic region they come from in and have developed different advantages for different environments?

And beside all that, is there advantage to having a denser bone structure vs lower center of gravity? Is there any objective difference between the sexes that give real physical advantages in both directions for different things? Might DNA itself be differentiating the sexes for different specializations and reproductive strategy?


I never felt the need to be sorry for the things I am born as, that I had no choice in being. I've also never felt the need to be proud of them, of things I didn't accomplish. But that's just me.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I think he's talking about America, Arky.