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RE: Thoughts On Atheism and Faith
October 9, 2016 at 10:58 am
(October 9, 2016 at 5:02 am)ray3400 Wrote: ------------
With that said, I've pretty much expressed all that I wanted to in this thread. I know some of you don't care, and don't like my expression. I'm alright with that, as I am a believer in the individual and coming to you own conclusions. Though in some sense we are all going through the human experience, and I would assume are all seeking truth in some way, so in that we can maybe have some solidarity. Either way I appreciate your comments and taking the time to participate in the discussion. Unfortunately the demands of the "real world" call and I no longer have much time to respond to this thread.
ray3400: "I'm taking my Jesus ball and going home!"
God thinks it's fun to confuse primates. Larsen's God!
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RE: Thoughts On Atheism and Faith
October 9, 2016 at 11:38 am
(This post was last modified: October 9, 2016 at 11:41 am by Thumpalumpacus.)
(October 9, 2016 at 5:45 am)ray3400 Wrote: So I would go on to think that the only thing that really brings atheists under the same umbrella term is that they all are, no matter what, lacking in a belief in any and all Gods. Which would imply that there can be a lot of diversity of beliefs and ideas under the same group "atheists". I'm not a cultural anthropologist, but it's interesting how atheist seem to share a similar culture and worldview, despite the only true requirement being "the lack of a belief in God" to be part of the group.
Exactly.
(October 9, 2016 at 5:45 am)ray3400 Wrote: Anyways, I have more practical things to do, thanks for the discussion.
We all have more practical things to do. Nothing wrong with occasionally enjoying a luxury ... or getting surly when folks don't agree with you.
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RE: Thoughts On Atheism and Faith
October 9, 2016 at 1:54 pm
It's not that surprising to me that atheists agree in general more than theists. Once you take arbitrary divine commandments out of the picture and work together to look at reality, you can come to sensible agreements.
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RE: Thoughts On Atheism and Faith
October 9, 2016 at 2:17 pm
(October 9, 2016 at 5:45 am)ray3400 Wrote: I assumed many atheists were proponents of naturalism, which by definition leaves any possibility of spirituality.
Not really. Most are simply methodological naturalists, meaning when I want to know something empirical I reach for science. When I have questions involving meaning, purpose or value I have no use for science. Spirituality has far more to do with the latter than the former. I don't personally claim the moniker of being spiritual but that is mostly because of the unfortunate association it has accumulated.
For example:
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RE: Thoughts On Atheism and Faith
October 9, 2016 at 4:14 pm
(October 7, 2016 at 10:30 am)Cato Wrote: The OP needs to read up on justified true belief. This whole 'degree of uncertainty', therefore faith, is fatuous bullshit. I have to assume that those deploying this tired argument fully understand they have absolutely no evidence to justify their beliefs and are desperate to have others acknowledge as respectable their entirely faith based position. Someone thinking that this reasoning is compelling has betrayed a severe ignorance of what constitutes knowledge (justified true belief).
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/knowledge-analysis/
Spot on. If I press the 'power' button on my computer, it doesn't require an act of faith to expect that my computer with go through a series of processes and turn itself on. This is what is called 'reasonable expectation based on experience'.
On the other hand, if I expected that pressing this button would result in orange marmalade oozing out of unoccupied USB ports, this is clearly an act of faith.
Similarly, to lack belief in a Being with whom no one has ever reliably communicated, whom no one has reliably ever seen, and whose existence isn't required to explain anything, isn't an act of faith, but one accepting the world as it is, not how deluded fantasy wishes it to be.
Boru
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RE: Thoughts On Atheism and Faith
October 9, 2016 at 6:32 pm
(This post was last modified: October 9, 2016 at 6:32 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(October 9, 2016 at 4:14 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Similarly, to lack belief in a Being with whom no one has ever reliably communicated, whom no one has reliably ever seen, and whose existence isn't required to explain anything, isn't an act of faith, but one accepting the world as it is, not how deluded fantasy wishes it to be.
Boru
QFT. I can't even figure out, for the life of me, what's wrong with the world as is, that would necessitate in any human being the need to believe in such. The entire thought process is completely alien to me.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Thoughts On Atheism and Faith
October 10, 2016 at 2:40 am
(October 9, 2016 at 2:17 pm)Whateverist Wrote: (October 9, 2016 at 5:45 am)ray3400 Wrote: I assumed many atheists were proponents of naturalism, which by definition leaves any possibility of spirituality.
Not really. Most are simply methodological naturalists, meaning when I want to know something empirical I reach for science. When I have questions involving meaning, purpose or value I have no use for science. Spirituality has far more to do with the latter than the former. I don't personally claim the moniker of being spiritual but that is mostly because of the unfortunate association it has accumulated.
For example:
Exactly, yes. Methodological naturalism seems by far the most rational stance to me. You lose nothing. You make no claims about "the Unknown". Yet you retain all functionality. It's pretty simple.
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RE: Thoughts On Atheism and Faith
October 12, 2016 at 4:35 pm
(This post was last modified: October 12, 2016 at 4:35 pm by henryp.)
(October 9, 2016 at 1:54 pm)robvalue Wrote: It's not that surprising to me that atheists agree in general more than theists. Once you take arbitrary divine commandments out of the picture and work together to look at reality, you can come to sensible agreements.
Widespread atheism, as far as I know, is still pretty new. Give us some time, and we'll be all over the map. First generation atheists made the leap from God to no God. And that's a big leap, but we are still in that argument just on the other side. When we have millions of people growing up without a God, and analyzing the world without ever bothering with the idea of God, I think it'll branch out a lot more.
But on here, for example, you can see a lot of people are still hung up on God vs. No God, and haven't moved on to what's next.
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