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RE: Campfire Chat About Hell
May 31, 2011 at 7:28 am
Quote:Woman: Well, I think it would be a good idea. (She chuckles) Whatever, I guess I'll be the only one in this relationship going to Heaven.
Me: Only in your mind.
Quote:This I think encapsulates the problem with religion, it's never enough to just be a good person.
It doesn't matter how good a person you are. You could be the nicest guy on earth, heck even if you died to insure life on earth, you'll still be going to hell for lack of belief in their god.
You could be a right nasty feller, but as longs as you believe in their god, you're fine.
Doesn't add up does it? 
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - Carl Sagan
Mankind's intelligence walks hand in hand with it's stupidity.
Being an atheist says nothing about your overall intelligence, it just means you don't believe in god. Atheists can be as bright as any scientist and as stupid as any creationist.
You never really know just how stupid someone is, until you've argued with them.
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RE: Campfire Chat About Hell
May 31, 2011 at 9:00 am
Seems like a light hearted quip? ("(She chuckles) Whatever, I guess I'll be the only one in this relationship going to Heaven")
I guess he knew how she was when he married her... 
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RE: Campfire Chat About Hell
May 31, 2011 at 9:27 am
(May 30, 2011 at 9:26 pm)Cinjin Cain Wrote: Woman: Well, I think it would be a good idea. (She chuckles) Whatever, I guess I'll be the only one in this relationship going to Heaven.
Me: Your "guess" is as good as anyone else's. Especially since the definition of "guess" is: to form an opinion of from little or no evidence.
"If there are gaps they are in our knowledge, not in things themselves." Chapman Cohen
"Shit-apples don't fall far from the shit-tree, Randy." Mr. Lahey
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RE: Campfire Chat About Hell
May 31, 2011 at 10:13 am
why would it necessitate a blow up, why not just a discussion? This just fortifies that the more negative the attitude, the more one expects disagreement to turn into conflict and then into anger. It doesn't necessarily have to go any farther than sharing ideas, but typically when the average theists and atheists get together in person and talk religion, leveler heads don't prevail.
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post
always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
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RE: Campfire Chat About Hell
May 31, 2011 at 10:53 am
(May 31, 2011 at 10:13 am)tackattack Wrote: why would it necessitate a blow up, why not just a discussion? This just fortifies that the more negative the attitude, the more one expects disagreement to turn into conflict and then into anger. It doesn't necessarily have to go any farther than sharing ideas, but typically when the average theists and atheists get together in person and talk religion, leveler heads don't prevail.
In my personal experience with this, I have found that all my atheists friends always seem to be looking for two things from Christians.
If they get both of those things - they won't care at all what you believe and cooler heads will most always prevail. They just want to know that one - you don't spout off that you KNOW you're absolutely right and everyone else is wrong and two - you don't condemn them to Hell because they don't believe your god. Keep in mind, that an atheist does expect you to believe that you're right ... that's a given. They just don't want an unprovable belief thrown in their face and than told that the life they lead is immoral on top of that. (surprise, no one likes being insulted)
To me, that seems fair. If all christians could just be NICE and not so arrogant and condescending, we'd get along fine. Unfortunately many Christians (and other religions) feel the "god-given" commandment to tell everyone else that they're wrong and that their soul is going to burn in hell. This of course is extremely annoying and is about the time the conversation blows up.
(By the way I am not inferring what kind of christian you or anyone else here is. I certainly don't know you.)
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RE: Campfire Chat About Hell
May 31, 2011 at 11:56 am
Absolutely Cinj. Running their fucking mouths about shit they don't know is their worst character flaw!
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RE: Campfire Chat About Hell
May 31, 2011 at 12:19 pm
(May 30, 2011 at 9:47 pm)Minimalist Wrote: (May 30, 2011 at 9:42 pm)BloodyHeretic Wrote: Woman: Well ... yeah. He believes that if you're good to people you go to Heaven - and I think that's just not right.
This I think encapsulates the problem with religion, it's never enough to just be a good person.
Most of them manage to avoid being good people. Religion sees to that.
Yes I agree. Religion manages to strip people of morals they might otherwise possess. But they can fuck off if they think they can do it to me.
"Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from weak minds."
Einstein
When I was 5 years old, my mother always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down happy. They told me I didn't understand the assignment. I told them they didn't understand life.
- John Lennon
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RE: Campfire Chat About Hell
May 31, 2011 at 3:56 pm
(May 31, 2011 at 10:53 am)Cinjin Cain Wrote: [quote='tackattack' pid='141383' dateline='1306851217']
In my personal experience with this, I have found that all my atheists friends always seem to be looking for two things from Christians.
If they get both of those things - they won't care at all what you believe and cooler heads will most always prevail. They just want to know that one - you don't spout off that you KNOW you're absolutely right and everyone else is wrong and two - you don't condemn them to Hell because they don't believe your god. Keep in mind, that an atheist does expect you to believe that you're right ... that's a given. They just don't want an unprovable belief thrown in their face and than told that the life they lead is immoral on top of that. (surprise, no one likes being insulted)
To me, that seems fair. If all christians could just be NICE and not so arrogant and condescending, we'd get along fine. Unfortunately many Christians (and other religions) feel the "god-given" commandment to tell everyone else that they're wrong and that their soul is going to burn in hell. This of course is extremely annoying and is about the time the conversation blows up.
My personal experience is exactly the same as yours, Cinjin. Virtually every Christian I have ever met has the same smug, pious, self-righteous, condescending attitude towards non-Christians. They don't differentiate between knowledge and belief; they KNOW that the bible is the word of god, they KNOW that they are in the exclusive, elite, "saved" club, they KNOW that their dead relatives are waiting for them in heaven, and they KNOW that non-Christians are going to hell. They are so indoctrinated into their beliefs that they wouldn't even consider that they might be wrong. Yeah, you want to see a blow-up, try having a conversation about atheism at a party dominated by southern baptists. The ONLY end to the conversation will be all of the Christians gleefully agreeing that the "sinner" will be burning in hell (and perhaps some discussion about not inviting the sinner to any more parties).
"If there are gaps they are in our knowledge, not in things themselves." Chapman Cohen
"Shit-apples don't fall far from the shit-tree, Randy." Mr. Lahey
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RE: Campfire Chat About Hell
May 31, 2011 at 3:59 pm
(May 31, 2011 at 10:13 am)tackattack Wrote: why would it necessitate a blow up, why not just a discussion? This just fortifies that the more negative the attitude, the more one expects disagreement to turn into conflict and then into anger. It doesn't necessarily have to go any farther than sharing ideas, but typically when the average theists and atheists get together in person and talk religion, leveler heads don't prevail. I think you missed the point tack. This isn't just theist vs. atheist, this is a married couple who have vowed to love each other no matter what. Even with those vows, it didn't stop her from using her religion to condemn her husband to hell. Regardless of how serious she was or not, it is not something you should ever say to a spouse. If my wife ever told me I was going to hell, there would be serious reprocussions. It's arrogant enough to tell people they're going to hell because they don't believe the same thing you do, but to say that to the person you've married is unacceptable and should raise some serious issues to the forefront of their relationship. If level heads had prevailed, she would have never said that in the first place.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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RE: Campfire Chat About Hell
May 31, 2011 at 7:31 pm
(This post was last modified: May 31, 2011 at 7:32 pm by reverendjeremiah.)
I would either be quiet like you were, or say something like "Well, if you believe God is truly good and forgiving, then your husband wouldnt be punished in hell now..would he?"
I would have to assess the situation..but it is usually best not to get mixed up in fundy matter.. they can explode HORRIBLY within a matter of seconds.
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