Chat with a creationist

[Gooders1002]

As I am still learn how to debate with this creationists, what do you make of these messages. This is all from the creationist. And help with tackling this level of stupidity.

1. The distance of the earth from the sun within the right amount of degrees in which if we were even slightly closer we would burn to death or slightly further, we would freeze to death. The mechanism of the human body, especially the workings of the human eye. The earth's perfect ecosystem. These are some of the proofs of God, but you don't want there to be God, so why even bother asking for proof? Until God opens your eyes, you will live your life reasoning Him away!

2. Well, the earth varies in temperature between roughly -30 degrees to roughly 120+ degrees and that has been consistent for as far back as it has been measured. The fact that it rotates on its axis around the sun keeps us from entirely freezing when we are further away and entirely burning up when we are closer. I can't tell you the exact amount closer, but amazing how it has remained at a survivable distance for all this time! How did the eye evolve over time, please explain.

3. Now, as far as historical accuracy, are you saying that there were no such people as the Babylonians, the Chaldeans, the Egyptians(that's an easy one), the Hebrews(another softball)? What about countries cities like Rome or countries like Greece, Spain and Egypt? What about the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers or the Red Sea? What about Mt Ararat? What about people like Pontius Pilate, the kings of Israel David and Solomon, Cyrus King of Persia and Herod the Great? All historical people! Facts!

4. All of those things I listed are in the Bible. You said there are no facts in the Bible, I wanted to prove to you that there are! And with the Bible putting those people, places and things in the proper context of history, it lends the Bible some credibility. Do you have any such thing by which to argue evolution?

4. It proves historical accuracy, now you are just being a denier. Part of the reason I trust it is because it records history accurately. Actually, 93% is kind of high from what I hear, but even if that is true, so what?  It is a theory that everyone keeps calling fact. You have NO historical data to prove it and it keeps changing constantly. Although the Bible has different versions and has been printed in many languages, the basic message has not been changed.

5. Gravity is not a theory it is a LAW!! Obviously I am not the clueless one here. Please tell me how the Bible came into existence. Historians, non-Christian ones have verified the existence of Jesus of Nazareth and his death on a cross. Yes, He could be considered a revolutionary to the religious system of the time, but a good teacher? Jesus is recorded as calling Himself God. Do you think Him to be a good teacher with claims like that?

6. First off, only the Old Testament was written in Hebrew, the New Testament was written in Greek. Those languages have not changed and we can still translate them today, as a matter of fact that's exactly what theologians do! Sorry dude(assuming I am talking to a male figure here), but you make bad arguments and you have your "facts" very wrong. I would do a little more study to know what you are speaking about. Good day!

[Tea Earl Grey Hot]

Points 1. and 2. are somewhat similar to the fine tuning arguments. Problem is if those things hadn't have happened, then we would not be here to ponder how unfortunate our existence is. With the universe the size that it is, and the age that it is, it was bound to produce at least our solar system with all the right conditions for life to emerge.

Point 3: Sure the Bible might have a few (emphasis on the few part) facts correct, but that doesn't at all prove the validity of the entire document (part to whole fallacy).

Point 4: I guess if you actually said "there are no facts" in the Bible, then he'd be right. There are few. But most of the Bible is unverifiable, and lot of its supposed history contradicts what we know likely happened in history.

Point 4a: I'm not sure what is being said. It's just a mess of words.

Point 5: Um, it's The Theory of Gravity: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_gravity
Jesus' existence has not been verified. The subject is hotly debated to this day. Just look at the works of Richard Carrier and Robert M Price and several other like minded scholars who argue that Jesus likely never existed and was the creation from many mythical savior type figures that predate the apostolic era. Sure, the scholars that argue this might be in the minority of scholars, but that doesn't mean anything. The character "Jesus" calls himself God in the gospel(or appears to, but even that is debatable), but that's assuming the gospels really are true. This is just C.S. Lewis' infamous Lord, Liar, Lunatic argument which presents a completely false trilemma.

Point 6: I'm not sure why this tidbit matters.

[Minimalist]

It would help to know what the questions were but he sounds like a garden variety shitwit. Anyone can listen to the answers in Genesis morons and parrot their shit back but it remains nonsense.

[Gooders1002]

This is the who converstion minus the names:

(Him)OK, so I believe the Bible is true. And the Bible is not evidence for itself?? Do you even understand that sentence??? I get my facts from history, from math, from science(what I understand of it, of course) and I look at all those things and I KNOW that God exists because no human is capable of making all things in such perfect order when all of existence should be chaotic.

(Me)Do you take the bible literately or metaphorically and nothing it perfect nothing is in perfect order, it it was I would be a utopia, buts It is not. Everything in existence is Chaotic. And I do understand my own sentence. So your evidence that The Bible is True because It says its true? Thats not Evidence at all in any shape or form. Prove to me God Exists without using circler reasoning. or bible passage without external evidence.

(Him)I take the Bible literally where it is meant to be literal and metaphorical where it is meant to be metaphorical. When the Bible says that Jesus died on the cross, was buried and 3 days later(by eyewitness account) was resurrected, I take that literally. When it says that, "the trees of the field will clap their hands" I read that metaphorically.
The distance of the earth from the sun within the right amount of degrees in which if we were even slightly closer we would burn to death or slightly further, we would freeze to death. The mechanism of the human body, especially the workings of the human eye. The earth's perfect ecosystem. These are some of the proofs of God, but you don't want there to be God, so why even bother asking for proof? Until God opens your eyes, you will live your life reasoning Him away!

(Me)First define slighly, secondly We know how the eye evolved over time and its far worst then the octopus or the great horn owl, and thirdly Earth is not a perfect ecosystem we can only live on 1% of the whole world.

(Him)Well, the earth varies in temperature between roughly -30 degrees to roughly 120+ degrees and that has been consistent for as far back as it has been measured. The fact that it rotates on its axis around the sun keeps us from entirely freezing when we are further away and entirely burning up when we are closer. I can't tell you the exact amount closer, but amazing how it has remained at a survivable distance for all this time! How did the eye evolve over time, please explain.
And the eco-system does not just revolve around humans, it refers to all human, plant and animal life. Kind of egotistical to make it all about you!
Now, as far as historical accuracy, are you saying that there were no such people as the Babylonians, the Chaldeans, the Egyptians(that's an easy one), the Hebrews(another softball)? What about countries cities like Rome or countries like Greece, Spain and Egypt? What about the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers or the Red Sea? What about Mt Ararat? What about people like Pontius Pilate, the kings of Israel David and Solomon, Cyrus King of Persia and Herod the Great? All historical people! Facts!

(Me)What? I do believe true historic facts and people. what has that got to do with my question.

(Him)All of those things I listed are in the Bible. You said there are no facts in the Bible, I wanted to prove to you that there are! And with the Bible putting those people, places and things in the proper context of history, it lends the Bible some credibility. Do you have any such thing by which to argue evolution?

(Me)so it got a couple of names and places right? big deal it still get 99.999% of everything wrong, and Evolution is supported by 93% of all scientist in all fields. I have see the tree of like in front of me and it is much more awe inspiring then ....god did it



(Him)It proves historical accuracy, now you are just being a denier. Part of the reason I trust it is because it records history accurately. Actually, 93% is kind of high from what I hear, but even if that is true, so what? It is a theory that everyone keeps calling fact. You have NO historical data to prove it and it keeps changing constantly. Although the Bible has different versions and has been printed in many languages, the basic message has not been changed.

(Me)then you have no clue what a scientific theory is Theory are a collection of FACTS that help us understand the world, just like the Theory of Gravity, and I do in fact I know how the Bible really came to be and I am unsure if Jesus did exist, but he was no Demigod, he was a revolutionary and A good teacher. lastly the Bibles today are very different from the original Hebrew Bible.

(Him)Gravity is not a theory it is a LAW!! Obviously I am not the clueless one here. Please tell me how the Bible came into existence. Historians, non-Christian ones have verified the existence of Jesus of Nazareth and his death on a cross. Yes, He could be considered a revolutionary to the religious system of the time, but a good teacher? Jesus is recorded as calling Himself God. Do you think Him to be a good teacher with claims like that?

(Me)It would take to long for me to time time it all out so I will give to a web link.
/watch?v=HTg3TrDyZ20 (the basics), Secondly The laws of Gravity fit in the Theory of Gravity there are no science Fact as a fact would impit that there is nothing left to learn. And this Video should explain were the bible came from: watch?v=MlnnWbkMlbg.

(Him)First off, only the Old Testament was written in Hebrew, the New Testament was written in Greek. Those languages have not changed and we can still translate them today, as a matter of fact that's exactly what theologians do! Sorry dude(assuming I am talking to a male figure here), but you make bad arguments and you have your "facts" very wrong. I would do a little more study to know what you are speaking about. Good day!

Also It help me if I got my Facts wrong.

[Minimalist]

I can't do this without a mouse. Really.one needs a shovel for the same old shit that this clown is trotting out. For now, you might remind this idiot that a have no evidence of any Hebrew Bible prior to the third century BC and that earliest version is written in Greek. Xtians hate to hear that shit but it is true.

Invite him to come by.

[Drich]

As I am still learn how to debate with this creationists, what do you make of these messages. This is all from the creationist. And help with tackling this level of stupidity.

1. The distance of the earth from the sun within the right amount of degrees in which if we were even slightly closer we would burn to death or slightly further, we would freeze to death. The mechanism of the human body, especially the workings of the human eye. The earth's perfect ecosystem. These are some of the proofs of God, but you don't want there to be God, so why even bother asking for proof? Until God opens your eyes, you will live your life reasoning Him away!

2. Well, the earth varies in temperature between roughly -30 degrees to roughly 120+ degrees and that has been consistent for as far back as it has been measured. The fact that it rotates on its axis around the sun keeps us from entirely freezing when we are further away and entirely burning up when we are closer. I can't tell you the exact amount closer, but amazing how it has remained at a survivable distance for all this time! How did the eye evolve over time, please explain.

3. Now, as far as historical accuracy, are you saying that there were no such people as the Babylonians, the Chaldeans, the Egyptians(that's an easy one), the Hebrews(another softball)? What about countries cities like Rome or countries like Greece, Spain and Egypt? What about the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers or the Red Sea? What about Mt Ararat? What about people like Pontius Pilate, the kings of Israel David and Solomon, Cyrus King of Persia and Herod the Great? All historical people! Facts!

4. All of those things I listed are in the Bible. You said there are no facts in the Bible, I wanted to prove to you that there are! And with the Bible putting those people, places and things in the proper context of history, it lends the Bible some credibility. Do you have any such thing by which to argue evolution?

4. It proves historical accuracy, now you are just being a denier. Part of the reason I trust it is because it records history accurately. Actually, 93% is kind of high from what I hear, but even if that is true, so what?  It is a theory that everyone keeps calling fact. You have NO historical data to prove it and it keeps changing constantly. Although the Bible has different versions and has been printed in many languages, the basic message has not been changed.

5. Gravity is not a theory it is a LAW!! Obviously I am not the clueless one here. Please tell me how the Bible came into existence. Historians, non-Christian ones have verified the existence of Jesus of Nazareth and his death on a cross. Yes, He could be considered a revolutionary to the religious system of the time, but a good teacher? Jesus is recorded as calling Himself God. Do you think Him to be a good teacher with claims like that?

6. First off, only the Old Testament was written in Hebrew, the New Testament was written in Greek. Those languages have not changed and we can still translate them today, as a matter of fact that's exactly what theologians do! Sorry dude(assuming I am talking to a male figure here), but you make bad arguments and you have your "facts" very wrong. I would do a little more study to know what you are speaking about. Good day!

You are unbelievable. You were looking for a discussion and you got one that you personally could not refute. So rather than seriously consider what was being said, your plea is for one of your peers to supply you with a come back so you can continue with an argument that has exceeded your abilities.

Maybe you should look at how you have completely closed your mind to christianity rather than follow the facts where they lead you.

[Minimalist]

Xtianity is horseshit but obviously good enough to fool the likes of you.

[Drich]

I can't do this without a mouse. Really.one needs a shovel for the same old shit that this clown is trotting out. For now, you might remind this idiot that a have no evidence of any Hebrew Bible prior to the third century BC and that earliest version is written in Greek. Xtians hate to hear that shit but it is true.

Invite him to come by.

How many times do you need to be proven wrong? How many times will you close your mind of to facts? How many links do you need before you stop pretending that (ancient/pre Greek) Hebrew texts do not exist?

Or is that what you hinge your unbelief on? and you desperately need this to be true for some reason?

You are wrong. Accept it, Move past it.

[Minimalist]

Hey, shithead, all you have to do is produce a Hebrew document of the torah which pre-dates the Septuagint. I'm sure there will be legions of biblical scholars in your debt because you have found something that all of them combined have missed.

All you have to do is post it.


You'll forgive me if I do not hold my breath waiting for you to come up with something which does not exist?

[NoMoreFaith]

1. There are at least 2 billion earthlike planets in the milky way alone. At least 125 billion galaxies(conservative estimate). IF life can only exist as we do.. but that's by no means a definite either.
More to the point, if this planet is so perfect for people to inhabit, why is 99.999999(plus a LOT more .9)% of the universe so hostile to our existence. Either God likes waste, or God is incompetent.
Do we assume upon seeing a puddle, that the hole it inhabits was created especially for it? Or is it simply attributing the fact it exists there, in the hole where it couldn't exist anywhere else, unwarranted special significance.
Why does he assume we don't want there to be a God? I want to live for a very long time, maybe even forever if my mind could cope with it, but I don't work on the assumption I will.

2. The earth actually has an eccentric orbit, which is likely to be partly responsible for the ice ages. The fact human history is so microscopic compared to the history of the earth is not evidence it was created for us.
We can exist as the earth is now, but it is a fallacy to say the earth has always been perfect for our existence.
In fact the only explanation for us existing over the hundreds of millions of years, is that we weren't always human, we have merely adapted to our surroundings.
Non-Sequitor on the eye, but its been so thoroughly debunked its a running joke now. But look around the natural world, the evolution of the eye is clearly shown. From simple light detection cells, to lightvsdark differentiation, to vague outlines, its all there. We depend on the sun for life, we require energy to exist, if there is ANY part of the body most likely to exist.. it is a detector for the energy of the sun to varying degrees of complexity and precision.

3. In 3000 years, archeologists may unearth Spider-man comic books. From this they may be able to correlate this to an ancient city known as "New York City". They may even unearth the copy where he fights "Wasp-man" in 1977, and records that New York completely blacked out for 24 hours one week AFTER the comic was released, as a prophecy to the event.
The may even read the comic and say WOW, Barack Obama WAS the president, there he is in the comic!
I don't even need to outline my point here, it should be obvious. Needless to say, spider-man remains .. a work of fiction.
I use spiderman because this is usually called the "Spider-man Fallacy"
New York is a real place,
Spiderman lived in New York
Therefore Spiderman is real

4. Spiderman fallacy as above. Does it lend Spider-man credibility as a depiction of real events?
I'm not going to respond to the evolution remarks, because all you need do is look at any science book which is like kryptonite to these guys since they work on the premise it isn't true and then avoid the actual evidence by looking in places there aren't any to the exclusion of the ACTUAL evidence.

It is a theory that everyone keeps calling fact.

Theory of Gravity is called fact too, learn how science differentiates levels of credibility.

You have NO historical data to prove it and it keeps changing constantly.

Not completely changed, minor revisions, correcting errors, why is that a bad thing?
Every piece of evidence is historical data, vast fossil records, dna predictions, its all there for him to look at, but what you might want to point out, is why is he referring to his religious sources for a scientific theory, instead of reading the actual scientific texts.

Although the Bible has different versions and has been printed in many languages, the basic message has not been changed.

Then why are there so many denominations with a different interpretation?

5. Gravity is not a theory it is a LAW!! Obviously I am not the clueless one here.

This is funny. I actually laughed out loud at work! I hope you grind him into the ground with this declaration, and how easy it is to prove it to be a total fabrication.
(Quick clue, Laws allow us to quantify results but tell us nothing about the Why?)

The historicity of Jesus for instance is STILL in dispute, so any claims of definite proof of his existence is a fabrication. I would simply ask him why he feels the need to attribute FACT to something which is FAMOUSLY disputed still today.
Is he a history denier now that facts disagree with him?

Seriously thou, if you don't know the answers off hand, and these are really easy ones, I would recommend thinkorigins etc and research for yourself. Don't just take what our opinions on these points are.. do the research yourself, otherwise you are just regurgitating what someone else tells you.. and does that make you any better than the creationist?