Was Muhammad a Pedophile?

[Cinjin]

Well, the Quran is actually silent on this. Nowhere does it honor or say that it's a good thing for a 50 year old to marry a 9-year-old. This was a part of cultural custom, I believe.

"Qui tacet consentire videtur" ("He who is silent seems to consent")

Now, if your precious holy book said that a 50 year old man should NOT stick his dick in a 9 year old that would give it some moral standing.

Don't bother. Sae thinks molestation is acceptable. Rayaan thinks it's part of their culture, and as always frodo is just a nut job looking for ways to disagree with me.

[Minimalist]

Once you get by the absurd idea that this shit was dictated by 'god' to fucking mohammad in his "dreams" and come to the realization that it was written by the leaders of a culture which enjoyed fucking children then it is fairly easy to understand why it continues to this day.

[Violet]

Don't bother. Sae thinks molestation is acceptable.

It is

Rayaan thinks it's part of their culture,

It is

and as always frodo is just a nut job looking for ways to disagree with me.

He doesn't have to look very hard to see a silly argument when it's there

[Rayaan]

Now, if your precious holy book said that a 50 year old man should NOT stick his dick in a 9 year old that would give it some moral standing.

Yes, but obviously it's not possible to fit the moral standings for every single action in the world that you can think of into the pages of a single book.

Only the most basic ones are necessary, such as the following:

"O you who believe! You are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should you treat them with harshness, that you may take away part of the dowry you have given them , except when they have become guilty of open lewdness. On the contrary, live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If you take a dislike to them, it may be that you dislike something and Allah will bring about through it a great deal of good." - (Surah 4:29)

So from that verse, one can easily make the inference that things like child molestation and abusing your wife are against the commandments of the Quran.

Once you get by the absurd idea that this shit was dictated by 'god' to fucking mohammad in his "dreams" and come to the realization that it was written by the leaders of a culture which enjoyed fucking children then it is fairly easy to understand why it continues to this day.

To you, these "dreams" are an absurd idea. To others, it is not an absurd idea.

To many people, Muhammad was a trickster/liar/con-man.
To others, he was simply crazy/deluded/insane.
While the rest believe that he was a truthful and honest person.

I feel that the last one is the most credible description of him after learning about his life and his affectionate treatment of others. Also, he was also very kind to children and orphans, which you can find many articles on this from Google, and this is another powerful argument on why he wouldn't enjoy fucking children.

We'd be missing Rayaan for the Muslim Seal of Approval

Approval that morality is entirely subjective? Well I see that fr0d0 and tackattack agrees with your post and I was tempted to kudos you at first also, but then, I resisted, because I thought that it would be dishonesty to my faith if I agreed with you that morality is totally subjective. Why? Because as a Muslim, I believe that what is right and wrong also comes from God who created good and evil - as well as being subjective to certain extent - since faith is ultimately subjective in the first place. Therefore, although "morality from God" and "subjective morality" are not necessarily exclusive ideas, they can be exclusive sometimes, in certain actions which an individual thinks that the action is harmless to anyone but he still avoids doing it because such an act is forbidden according to his religion (such as playing the lottery, for example, because gambling is prohibited in Islam).

So, that's why I don't agree with you that morality is fully subjective in every single situation (morality as in "what actions are good or bad").

[Cinjin]

To many people, Muhammad was a trickster/liar/con-man.
To others, he was simply crazy/deluded/insane.
While the rest believe that he was a truthful and honest person.

I feel that the last one is the most credible description of him after learning about his life and his affectionate treatment of others.

Did you "learn" this from the Qua ran?

We'd be missing Rayaan for the Muslim Seal of Approval

Approval that morality is entirely subjective? Well I see that fr0d0 and tackattack agrees with your post and I was tempted to kudos you at first also, but then, I resisted, because I thought that it would be dishonesty to my faith if I agreed with you that morality is totally subjective. Why? Because as a Muslim, I believe that what is right and wrong also comes from God who created good and evil - as well as being subjective to certain extent - since faith is ultimately subjective in the first place. Therefore, although "morality from God" and "subjective morality" are not necessarily exclusive ideas, they can be exclusive sometimes, in certain actions which an individual thinks that the action is harmless to anyone but he still avoids doing it because such an act is forbidden according to his religion (such as playing the lottery, for example, because gambling is prohibited in Islam).

So, that's why I don't agree with you that morality is fully subjective in every single situation (morality as in "what actions are good or bad").

So someone did actually read and understand my post. Funny how the only people (Frodo and Sae) who bitched and whined about it were the ones who were not involved in the initial discussion - and the one guy who I was debating is the one guy who seems to grasp what I was saying.

[fr0d0]

@ Rayaan: For the record... I kudos-ed Sae for an intelligent and well made post. Secular morals are subjective, the morals of Christians are based on an objective morality... subjective morality gets in the way of that. Cinjin is being deliberately extremist and antagonistic of course to make a show. We shouldn't take what he says seriously.

[reverendjeremiah]

Yes, but obviously it's not possible to fit the moral standings for every single action in the world that you can think of into the pages of a single book.

Only the most basic ones are necessary, such as the following:...blah...blah...blah

Really? I thought your book was written over a 20 year time span DIRECTLY from the word of Allah. Allah could snap his fingers and make ANYTHING happen, including allow a book to hold such information.

Do you normally put human constraints on your all powerful deities as an excuse for a book that looks more and more "human inspired" than "god inspired" as time goes by Rayaan?

Now..this is the part where you make up excuses of why or how your all powerful, all-knowing god didnt or couldnt do that...

...and I will prepare to laugh out loud and roll my eyes at the sad excuses you make for your "all powerful god".

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Once you get by the absurd idea that this shit was dictated by 'god' to fucking mohammad in his "dreams" and come to the realization that it was written by the leaders of a culture which enjoyed fucking children then it is fairly easy to understand why it continues to this day.

I will bet all of my chips on the color and number Min just bet his on..if you please.

[Minimalist]

Yes, but obviously it's not possible to fit the moral standings for every single action in the world that you can think of into the pages of a single book.

Yeah...but not fucking children ought to be one that makes the cutoff, Rayaaan. Sorry. You are far from making any sort of case here.

[reverendjeremiah]

To many people, Muhammad was a trickster/liar/con-man.
To others, he was simply crazy/deluded/insane.
While the rest believe that he was a truthful and honest person.

I feel that the last one is the most credible description of him after learning about his life and his affectionate treatment of others. Also, he was also very kind to children and orphans, which you can find many articles on this from Google, and this is another powerful argument on why he wouldn't enjoy fucking children.

You forgot other choices..but that is predictable since you are biased. How about:

To some, Muhammad is nothing more than a fictional character with no real evidence for his existence outside of religious writtings.
To some, Muhammad was a plant by the Catholic church to better control the Middle East.
To some, Muhammad was a demon possessed Devil, who did and wrote down the biddings of Satan.
While the rest could give two shits about Muhammad or not.

How about next time not censoring the options you dont like.

[Rayaan]

Did you "learn" this from the Qua ran?

Not just from the Quran, but from many other sources and biographical information which many of you will reject as apologetic bullshit and/or fantasies.

Really? I thought your book was written over a 20 year time span DIRECTLY from the word of Allah. Allah could snap his fingers and make ANYTHING happen, including allow a book to hold such information.

No, because an omnipotent god would not be able to do things which are logically impossible. Aside from that, I think that God merely seems to be limited in his power because He is an all-powerful being who is interacting with a limited world, and with limited minds, and that's why His power goes down to the level of appearing to be limited (from our own perspective). Therefore, I believe that it's it's a matter of perspective, and we cannot ever realize God's full potential as an "all-powerful" being (or what that even means).

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You forgot other choices..but that is predictable since you are biased. How about:

To some, Muhammad is nothing more than a fictional character with no real evidence for his existence outside of religious writtings.
To some, Muhammad was a plant by the Catholic church to better control the Middle East.
To some, Muhammad was a demon possessed Devil, who did and wrote down the biddings of Satan.
While the rest could give two shits about Muhammad or not.

How about next time not censoring the options you dont like.

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The fact that I did not mention those does not mean that I am biased on Muhammad (since you don't know whether or not you're being biased in your own list either). Plus, there may be 50 other options and that's why I chose the main 3. Your list is an addition to mines. Nevertheless, people can believe whatever they think is the best explanation of Muhammad's life.

@ Rayaan: For the record... I kudos-ed Sae for an intelligent and well made post. Secular morals are subjective, the morals of Christians are based on an objective morality... subjective morality gets in the way of that. Cinjin is being deliberately extremist and antagonistic of course to make a show. We shouldn't take what he says seriously.

Oh, now I get it. I wasn't making the distinction between secular morality vs. religious morality.

I thought you and tackattack agreed with her post because she has turned you guys into her "mindslaves" with her Galactic Empress-ness (or maybe you already are)?