John Oliver...Spotlight on Johnson and Stein

[Faith No More]

We actually could vote our way out of it, but both parties are counting on the fact that you'll be so scared of the other guy that you'll vote for theirs regardless. As long as you vote out of fear, the two parties can maintain the status quo that they've created.

I don't really have the answer exactly how to fix it, but I do know that repeatedly voting for the lesser of two evils and expecting something to change is insane.

[Whateverist]

I'm not sure what people think we are supposed to do to change the situation we currently have.  Electing lower officials who are sane won't change the 2 party system at the top.  Since it's all set up, we CANNOT vote our way out of it, nor get out of it by refusing to vote.  

I'm seriously asking. I keep hearing people say, we need to change the system.  Well duh, it sucks, our votes pretty much don't even count in 90% of the country anyway. The whole things is shitty.  What I don't hear people saying is what we are supposed to do about it, that actually might cause change.  They just bitch and moan and insult people who are active in the current system at all. (Not directed at people in this thread so much as what I'm seeing on social media).

P.s. Bernie '20.  I don't care if he's on a ventilator, he's got my vote already.

I hear ya.  The separation of powers is basically a straight jacket and I agree we'll never vote our way out of it.  (But then I never thought the USSR would ever go away given its design so the political shit I know isn't so great.)

Even if Bernie is alive in '20 I'd prefer Elizabeth.  No more men presidents, okay?  Stop us before we screw things up worse.  Please.

[The Grand Nudger]

Well, what I meant was that if you stay home, no one will know your disdain for the candidates.  It will just be assumed you were too lazy to vote.  Just go and write in "fuck all these assholes."  It's at least doing something, as compared to doing nothing.  If nothing else, it will at least register with the Dems that you wouldn't vote for their candidate even when faced with the possibility of a Trump presidency.

That only makes sense if you have a preference for, or confidence in the democrats to some greater extent than republicans.  I don't.  Yes, they both have their ad copy (and so do used car salesman at chevy and ford), but I don't see them as anything other than two camps of geriatric assholes maintaining a friendly argument between them to distract us while they squeeze us dry. It's a pretty standard con.

[Faith No More]

That only makes sense if you have a preference for, or confidence in the democrats to some greater extent than republicans.  I don't.  Yes, they both have their ad copy (and so do used car salesman at chevy and ford), but I don't see them as anything other than two camps of geriatric assholes maintaining a friendly argument between them to distract us while they squeeze us dry.  It's a pretty standard con.

Yeah, but at least the Dems have the tiniest bit of self-awareness. If they lose to the giant oompa-loompa, there is a small chance they recognize they did something wrong, whereas if the Repubs lose, they're just going to figure they need to double-down on the bigotry and hatred.

[Aroura]

But if only 1% of the people vote, the system keeps working.

Not voting alone doesn't solve this the same way not buying the rat sandwich would. Burger King needs to have a certain percentage of people keep shopping there. The government, as it is set up, does not require many people voting to keep it working. As it is, what, only 35% or eligible people vote? Maybe 45%? So, more than half of the people are already like fuck it, and look how much good that is doing.

I think you have to take action, not just give them the middle finger.

[Whateverist]

I hear rat tastes pretty much like chicken.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I plan on voting, but Rhythm, you're mounting the best argument for not voting I've seen since Carlin's routine.

[The Grand Nudger]

-continuing the thought, with a recent example.  Repubs have been bitching for years about voter fraud.  Yes, it's transparent bid to keep blacks out of polling booths...but now, with Trump, they're getting interviewed on NPR (of all places) saying that the danger to claiming the system is rigged is that it erodes confidence in our institutions.  So long as it was just race baiting dog whistlers greasing the wheels it was okay, but the moment they start to worry that it de-legitimizes their bullshit in the public eye...which includes all that shit about voter fraud, they start to get antsy.  

The last thing they want is any sizable group of people losing confidence in the system....because -gasp and shock- that might lead people to stay home on voting day.

@FNM Don;t even get me started on the crocodile tears that count as "self awareness" for the dem establishment. They rebranded themselves out of being the party of jim crow and southern racism...but the brand is all that's changed. They'd put a suit on mlk's bones and parade him up and down the street if they thought it would get them enough votes. These are the people who propose welfare for the poor, and award the earmarked funds as corporate welfare to those who exploit the poor. They're the ones that talk the big environment game -as- they sell us up the river on the very same. The repubs say plenty of batshit things about the dems, but they're not wrong when they claim that dems -use- these causes to grind out the same tired shit for their own backers.

The only -real- disagreement between either party is how to divide the loot.

@Aroura They -do- need your vote..for the same reasons that burger king needs your money (and lt;s face it, money is a big factor in why any candidate needs your vote)...and if they can't have that they need to keep you voting against them (and preferably losing) otherwise the well runs dry.

Maybe that's why they both parties strongly agree, that the most important thing for citizens like us is to do is keep yanking that fucking lever like it were anything other than a slot machine?

@No one in particular: I know how easy it is to imagine that I won;t vote because I'm lazy, or ignorant. To characterize this as the inaction of a person who doesn't give a shit and wouldn't take action to make change, or that I'm some anarcho nutjob (haven't gotten there yet but it;s a matter of time), or maybe that I'm some kind of ideological purist who wouldn't dirty my hands with a flawed candidate. The great part, about these particular lines of criticism..is that I'm actually a moderate (it should be pretty fucking easy to find a candidate a moderate would find acceptable, don't you think?) and a patriot, who's shown...not told, that I'm willing to dig deep and give this place everything I've got, up to and including my life. I don;t give a shit how many hookers a candidate has bought, I don't care whether or not the candidate carries a bible in his pocket along with the smiling wife and 1.5 children and pulls them all out of that same pocket at every opportunity. I'd put up with either, np. Hell, I;m sympathetic to a little grift here and there as well, so long as we know who's stuffing what into their pockets and why.

I'm not voting because that -is- my action, it;s the only thing I -cvan- do to effect the change I want to see in context....because I do care, and I've had enough of this shit in just the short amount of time I've been here. I plan on being here for a long time to come, too...so I have the patience for a long game. I'll rob them, insomuch as I can, of the legitimacy they babble about every time a president invokes the public mandate - pointing to the 51% of 57% that got them elected.

[Minimalist]

Without it, they cannot effectively goivern.

Really?  37% bothered to vote in the last mid-terms.  Doesn't seem to have slowed the republicunts down a bit.

[Aroura]

Right, the problem is they only need a small percentage to keep voting. A much smaller percentage than a business would need to keep running. Huge sections can and have lost faith in the system, and have ceased to vote, and the system grinds on without them.....