Prayer

[emjay]

Whatever you're going through CL, you already have the strength inside you to deal with it, you just have to find it

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

This is one of the few long threads on the forum where I've read each and every post. I can't shake the feeling that prayer is very much akin to removing the battery from your cell phone and continuing to carry on one side of the conversation.

Boru

[Catholic_Lady]

The way I see it is that prayer stops people from focusing on themselves... by constantly either thanking or asking for help from an external source, people neglect their own inner resources and/or don't give them enough credit. It seems to me that it could lead to  a very shallow and empty existence, that lacks self-awareness and psychological growth because of constantly 'blaming' (in a positive or negative sense) the external world rather than trying to understand and master the inner world.

That really just depends on how a person prays. Praying is very much like meditation. You can pray in such a way that brings negativity and entitlement, or you can do so in a way that allows you to self reflect and have a more positive, optimistic outlook. The latter is what we are called to aim for.

[The Grand Nudger]

There we have it.  Prayer -can- supernaturally produce real goods, most often "through" people apparently, but not limited to that approach...and much more often ephemeral "strength"....some folks just don't like the way that other folks pray or what they pray for.  

I am jacks complete lack of surprise.

The whole thing is silly. People tying themselves into knots trying to maintain non-supernaturally miraculous this or thats in the vaguest sense possible, unwilling to go out on the limb and say "sure, god could give that woman a loaf of bread, somehow, he just decided not to because he didn't like the sound of her muttered verse", and yet believing exactly that all the while.

[Neo-Scholastic]

Why pray?
If god is all seeing and all knowing then he knows what you want to pray about already, so why waste his time telling him things he already knows

Prayer is not about God knowing, It is about us acknowledging, and a willingness to change.

Maybe but I still ask for stuff.

[Whateverist]

My theory, for the 708th time, is that they recognize that the superdupernatural can only penetrate the natural world if we hold the door open from our side.  So, unless you make yourself open to divine intervention, He can't do anything for you.  Throw in something about free will, yada yada.

I don't know whether believers think their own prayers on another's behalf can open the door for another person or if it is really intended as a reminder to their fellow believer to open their own damn door.

Obviously, a person crying out to god for help feeding their children is about as open to the divine as anyone can get.  Some end up believing that god answers their prayers...and why not, scripture says he does, the pulpit says he does...even if the pulpit knows better than to write checks their gods ass can't cash explicitly.  They all vaguely felate intercessionary prayer and the power of prayer, and as to the question you asked.....it;s non- negotiable for a catholic...they have to believe in the communion and intercession of saints.  That someone else can plead with god on your behalf to"open the door".  Catechism and all that, lol.

You're asking the wrong person for "catholic beliefs" when you ask Cath.  She has her beliefs, which are frequently at odds with the catechism and of the cannonization of saints (whose miracles are all "confirmed" by the church and very often presented themselves as real goods in response to pious prayer)....as are the beliefs of many, probably even most "catholics".  Even the church understands this.  They constantly bemoan their adherents general lack of knowledge in the faith and dabbling in personal and foreign ideologies.

Of course I'm always going to root for those rebels who insist on it making sense to them and not blindly toeing the line.

[Minimalist]

I don't think you understand how our beliefs work.

We don't believe in a God who is a wizard with a magic wand and who will make food appear out of thin air for the poor people we pray for. That's not really how it works. When we "pray for the poor," our hope is not for something supernatural, but for them to be granted some emotional strength to get through tough times... or for some sort of difference in the hearts of the people around them. For a walker-by to feel empathy and give food or offer a job, for example. Or for the poor person to find emotional peace while battling through.

...things like that.

---

I have asked for people to pray for me before, because I'm a Christian and it brings me comfort to know that ppl are praying for me. Likewise, I let ppl know when I pray for them bc I want to give them the same comfort I get when others pray for me. No selfishness.

A starving man cannot eat your prayers, C/L.

[Catholic_Lady]

Obviously, a person crying out to god for help feeding their children is about as open to the divine as anyone can get.  Some end up believing that god answers their prayers...and why not, scripture says he does, the pulpit says he does...even if the pulpit knows better than to write checks their gods ass can't cash explicitly.  They all vaguely felate intercessionary prayer and the power of prayer, and as to the question you asked.....it;s non- negotiable for a catholic...they have to believe in the communion and intercession of saints.  That someone else can plead with god on your behalf to"open the door".  Catechism and all that, lol.

You're asking the wrong person for "catholic beliefs" when you ask Cath.  She has her beliefs, which are frequently at odds with the catechism and of the cannonization of saints (whose miracles are all "confirmed" by the church and very often presented themselves as real goods in response to pious prayer)....as are the beliefs of many, probably even most "catholics".  Even the church understands this.  They constantly bemoan their adherents general lack of knowledge in the faith and dabbling in personal and foreign ideologies.

Of course I'm always going to root for those rebels who insist on it making sense to them and not blindly toeing the line.

For the record, I am not one of them. Not a single one of my beliefs are at odds with Catholicism.

[The Grand Nudger]

They blindly toe the lines of others, Whatevs.  That's the church's gripe, lol.  All this business about the problem of entitlement and intercessionary prayer is a common protestant criticism -of- catholicism.  The idea that god doesn't supernaturally grant real goods a skeptics criticism of prayer in the general. Both unknowingly or unwittingly absorbed via the crucible of american culture into the theological viewpoints of nominal catholics.

[Catholic_Lady]

I don't think you understand how our beliefs work.

We don't believe in a God who is a wizard with a magic wand and who will make food appear out of thin air for the poor people we pray for. That's not really how it works. When we "pray for the poor," our hope is not for something supernatural, but for them to be granted some emotional strength to get through tough times... or for some sort of difference in the hearts of the people around them. For a walker-by to feel empathy and give food or offer a job, for example. Or for the poor person to find emotional peace while battling through.

...things like that.

---

I have asked for people to pray for me before, because I'm a Christian and it brings me comfort to know that ppl are praying for me. Likewise, I let ppl know when I pray for them bc I want to give them the same comfort I get when others pray for me. No selfishness.

A starving man cannot eat your prayers, C/L.

Which is why the corporal works of mercy specifically teaches us to feed the hungry. Not just pray for them.