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RE: Strong and Weak Arguments
January 1, 2017 at 5:10 am
(December 29, 2016 at 2:18 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: I would like to hear what AF members think are the weakest arguments supporting their position and strongest arguments against it. Believers are invited to admit the skeptical objections they find most reasonable (even if they do not sway you) and critique the worst apologetics. Skeptics are invited to admit which apologetic seems most reasonable (even if they do not sway you) and critique the least valid objections. So I’ll start…
IMO the weakest apologetic is Pascal’s wager since it relies entirely on a specific cultural context.
IMO the most reasonable objection comes from Kant. He proposes that ‘being’ is not a proper predicate and therefore the saying that God’s essence is the same as His existence is problematic.
There's so much evil/pain/death in the world therefore no god. Probably the worst argument for atheism I've heard.
Are you ready for the fire? We are firemen. WE ARE FIREMEN! The heat doesn’t bother us. We live in the heat. We train in the heat. It tells us that we’re ready, we’re at home, we’re where we’re supposed to be. Flames don’t intimidate us. What do we do? We control the flame. We control them. We move the flames where we want to. And then we extinguish them.
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RE: Strong and Weak Arguments
January 1, 2017 at 12:55 pm
(This post was last modified: January 1, 2017 at 12:57 pm by Whateverist.)
Yeah, more like a reason a bitterly disappointed believer would stop worshipping rather than a reason not to believe.
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RE: Strong and Weak Arguments
January 2, 2017 at 7:11 am
(January 1, 2017 at 12:55 pm)Whateverist Wrote: Yeah, more like a reason a bitterly disappointed believer would stop worshipping rather than a reason not to believe.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Second only to 'God is dead'.
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RE: Strong and Weak Arguments
January 9, 2017 at 5:30 pm
"The universe is intelligently designed."
"There is no house popping out of nothing or as a result of an explosion, how does it count for the universe?"
"You can't see Bluetooth or the air too, so how is not seeing god an argument?"
"There is scientific knowledge recorded in the Quran which agrees with all the modern discoveries made about the universe"
Strong theistic arguments? There are none.
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RE: Strong and Weak Arguments
January 9, 2017 at 5:36 pm
(January 9, 2017 at 5:30 pm)Vast Vision Wrote: Strong theistic arguments? There are none.
I understand that you don't think arguments in favor of theism are strong. What are the worst objections some atheists make to those arguments? What do you consider the weakest justification for being an atheist?
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RE: Strong and Weak Arguments
January 9, 2017 at 5:53 pm
(This post was last modified: January 9, 2017 at 5:54 pm by Edwardo Piet.)
Weakest argument for atheism "There can't possibly be any supernatural creator because that would be ridiculous!" A.K.A. The Argument From Personal Incredulity.
Strongest argument for theism: Not applicable.
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RE: Strong and Weak Arguments
January 9, 2017 at 5:53 pm
(This post was last modified: January 9, 2017 at 5:57 pm by Alex K.)
(December 29, 2016 at 2:18 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: I would like to hear what AF members think are the weakest arguments supporting their position and strongest arguments against it. Believers are invited to admit the skeptical objections they find most reasonable (even if they do not sway you) and critique the worst apologetics. Skeptics are invited to admit which apologetic seems most reasonable (even if they do not sway you) and critique the least valid objections. So I’ll start…
IMO the weakest apologetic is Pascal’s wager since it relies entirely on a specific cultural context.
IMO the most reasonable objection comes from Kant. He proposes that ‘being’ is not a proper predicate and therefore the saying that God’s essence is the same as His existence is problematic.
Among the weakest for: Theodicy, that may cast doubt that there is a loving God, but doesn't really make a case for atheism
Strongest against: Fine tuning, contrary to what some deniers say, several physical constants and combinations thereof cannot be changed by more than a tiny fraction without wreaking havoc on our universe's ability to support life.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
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RE: Strong and Weak Arguments
January 9, 2017 at 5:58 pm
(January 9, 2017 at 5:57 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: (January 9, 2017 at 5:53 pm)Alex K Wrote: Strongest against: Fine tuning That surprises me, coming from your background. Could you elaborate?
Sorry, see my edit above
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
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RE: Strong and Weak Arguments
January 9, 2017 at 5:59 pm
(This post was last modified: January 9, 2017 at 6:46 pm by Vast Vision.)
I cannot think of a weak atheistic argument spontaneously; I might be enlightened.
What is atheism? The mere absence of belief in a world view for which there is no valid proof whatsoever. What theists believe to be a testament for the validity of their belief, has not to be one. I have never seen Atheists making statements theists often attribute to them.
(January 1, 2017 at 5:10 am)paulpabl Wrote: There's so much evil/pain/death in the world therefore no god. Probably the worst argument for atheism I've heard.
How is this a weak argument based on the nature of the god probably most of us are thinking of? When the god who is said to be a merciful, all-loving and all-forgiving planer, causes such a massive amount of suffering in the world and is willing to bring down endless agony to those with nothing but a honest fallacy - the inability to recognize him in the creation, as the mind engineered by god himself would not allow so.
Theistic response however is weak. As they say that god is not within the boundaries of logic and works in a way not understandable for humans, they admit, that their belief is irrational, since gods very actions are claimed to be irrational ("not bound by logic").
(January 9, 2017 at 5:53 pm)Alex K Wrote: Strongest against: Fine tuning, contrary to what some deniers say, several physical constants and combinations thereof cannot be changed by more than a tiny fraction without wreaking havoc on our universe's ability to support life.
The absence of a plausible explanation at this moment is no proof for the opposite view. Magic can never be a good answer. "I cannot comprehend how this works, it must be the work of a wizard!"
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RE: Strong and Weak Arguments
January 9, 2017 at 6:55 pm
(This post was last modified: January 9, 2017 at 6:55 pm by Edwardo Piet.)
(January 9, 2017 at 5:53 pm)Alex K Wrote: Strongest against: Fine tuning, contrary to what some deniers say, several physical constants and combinations thereof cannot be changed by more than a tiny fraction without wreaking havoc on our universe's ability to support life.
Anthropic principle deals with that with ease! 
Doesn't matter how unlikely something is once you deal with the fact we're already here. Anthropic principle makes the odds 1 out of 1.
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