Guys.....isn't this going a bit too far?

[ErGingerbreadMandude]

No problem with any of that except so far as joining in the chorus of male voices opining what a woman should do with her body. At that I don't think you've been as strident as some. Would just love to hear you say it is and should be every woman's call.

Nope. I would never police what a woman should do with her body. However the moment a woman becomes pregnant she is also responsible for another human being. A human being with its own right to live. Having a human grow inside a woman is just a consequence of evolution because nature is by principle sexist you can't exactly complain and have nature change that.

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But a woman who wants an abortion doesn't desire to hurt the fetus

This really stood out to me.Yeah the mother want it dead she wants it out of her body. The fact that it results in death isn't the result of her desire it just happens as a consequence

So let's say Hypothetically I want you out of the forum (obviously not, I enjoy your posts ) shall I slit your throat and then feign innocence by claiming, "Oh I just wanted her out of here I didn't actually wanted her to die to make it possible."

[Whateverist]

No problem with any of that except so far as joining in the chorus of male voices opining what a woman should do with her body.  At that I don't think you've been as strident as some.  Would just love to hear you say it is and should be every woman's call.

Nope. I would never police what a woman should do with her body. However the moment a woman becomes pregnant she is also responsible for another human being. A human being with its own right to live. Having a human grow inside a woman is just a consequence of evolution because nature is by principle sexist you can't exactly complain and have nature change that.

Well you certainly have the right to not like it when a woman chooses to abort.  So long as you're not pushing to legally take her choice away from her or attempting to make her feel still more crappy about it, carry on.

[ErGingerbreadMandude]

So it seems you've agreed with me on everything other than that women legally have a right to abort, which I already knew and was not arguing against in the first place but whatever, Whateverist.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

Believe it or not, over 350,000 babies are born every hour right now. Since none of us will help pay the woman's bills for her baby or take care of it why should we care if she terminates her pregnancy? For those who want her to have the baby they should get busy and have their own. There's no reason to make everyone's problems your own problems, especially when you can't solve any of your own problems.

[A Theist]

Yes, I do know all of that. Maybe planned parenthood could just eliminate the abortion part and continue with its other services to women's health care. But that still wouldn't set well with you, would it?

Is this a federal funds/tax dollar argument/position?

If PP removed the abortion part yet other medical facilities were built to replace the medical abortion need that was lost, would you be OK with that?

No. We already have facilities that can abort a pregnancy if it becomes necessary to save the life of the mother because of it. Also, within the first few days after a rape assault a woman can have a D&C to prevent a pregnancy from occurring, and we don't need more facilities for that procedure either.

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I literally said, "The moment a woman becomes pregnant she is also responsible for another human being". I didn't say, "The moment a woman becomes pregnant she is solely responsible for the pregnancy". I have no idea what you're talking about.

Ah yes, the identity politics. Well listen here then, I also identify as a 20 time Olympic gold medalist sex god, my pronouns are "Oh yeah daddy" and "Just like that daddy".

No problem with any of that except so far as joining in the chorus of male voices opining what a woman should do with her body.  At that I don't think you've been as strident as some.  Would just love to hear you say it is and should be every woman's call.

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You're saying the only reason babies and the mentally handicapped deserve the same considerations as ourselves (the right to life) is if they "matter" to someone more worthy. Shouldn't the fact that they are innocent human beings be enough?

That sounds incredibly cruel. And I don't mean that in a personally insulting way to you, as I know you're not a cruel person. But that just sounded really really bad. You're basically saying they are inherently lesser than us.

I'm just trying to make an ethics argument.  I see ethics as revolving around enlightened self interest, not objective values or inalienable rights.  So I think a good case can be made along these lines for the good treatment of the helpless among us.  

Realistically one would have to be cruel and unreflective to wish to hurt anything on account of its being helpless.  But a woman who wants an abortion doesn't desire to hurt the fetus.  I'm sure in the great majority of cases it is the least bad (though still bad) choice available under unfortunate circumstances.  In such cases I think the mother is the only one in a rightful position to speak for the helpless fetus inside her.  If in her estimation the fetus must go I think (as you know) that is her call and no abstract argument regarding the ethics of human interactions can trump it.

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You realize, contrary to the narrative in the conservative echo chamber you like to spend so much time in, Planned Parenthood does a hell of a lot for women's health services aside from abortion, right? STD testing and treatments, cancer screenings, contraceptive services. IIRC, abortion services account for less than 3 percent of their annual spending.

 I wonder if A_T thinks women who get aboritions for personal reasons which he is unable to respect should be punished.  

No I don't. Not under the current laws, that is. But, hopefully, if those laws change restricting abortions to saving the life of the mother, then yes. Both the abortionist and the woman should be held accountable to those laws. What the punishment may be, I don't know. Our states legislators will have to decide the punishments fitting the crime.

[brewer]

Is this a federal funds/tax dollar argument/position?

If PP removed the abortion part yet other medical facilities were built to replace the medical abortion need that was lost, would you be OK with that?

No. We already have facilities that can abort a pregnancy if it becomes necessary to save the life of the mother because of it.  Also, within the first few days after a rape assault a woman can have a D&C to prevent a pregnancy from occurring, and we don't need more facilities for that procedure either.

My god you are dense. You need to learn more about the entire reproductive process, but my guess is that you won't because it won't fit your comfortable agenda.

OK, federally funded wire hangers for all!

[Thumpalumpacus]

Our states legislators will have to decide the punishments fitting the crime.

If you honestly believe that a fetus is human, ought you not simply support prosecuting it as first-degree murder?

[ErGingerbreadMandude]

[ukatheist]

Way to miss the point, pool. No one argues that a fetus is part of a woman's body. But you see that thing surrounding the fetus? Signposted 'womans body'? A woman does have a right to decide what we do with that, so if she chooses not to be an incubator for 40 weeks, that is her right.

Tell me, if it were possible to transplant a foetus from one person to another, lets say that the mother is going to die before the foetus becomes viable, do you think that another person should be forced to incubate that foetus until viability? If it were possible to transplant the foetus into the biological father?

The question is, should any person be forced to use their body as an incubator against their will?

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[Homeless Nutter]

If dimwitted c*nts, like A theist believe, that fetus is a human, than why do they accept murdering the unborn children of rapists, as punishment for their a**hole fathers' crimes?

Oh, that's right - because they're dimwitted c*nts. The answer was there all along...