Guys do you believe Howard Storm's NDE?

[KevinM1]

You guys just don't get it.  

You keep on saying that the brain can do this or that but in a NDE the brain is 100% dead as diagnosed by qualified doctors.
Are you better than qualified doctors?

The problem is that you are completely incorrect about this.  

Anyone who experiences brain activity is not brain dead and therefore not dead.  

NEAR - Death - Experience .... get it?  NEARLY-,  ALMOST-  but NOT QUITE- dead.  See the difference?

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If you've stopped taking your meds I suggest you get back on them.

[Edwardo Piet]

"Guys do you believe Howard Storm's NDE?"

No.

[Angrboda]

You guys just don't get it.  

You keep on saying that the brain can do this or that but in a NDE the brain is 100% dead as diagnosed by qualified doctors.
Are you better than qualified doctors?

Don't fool yourself mate.  

It is really bad for you.  


http://www.near-death.com/science/eviden...-dead.html

Of course, the issue of whether Pam was "really" dead within standstill is an extraordinarily misleading red herring in this context. And it is blatantly irresponsible for Sabom to explicitly state that her NDE occurred "while in this state." As Sabom's own account reveals, her standstill condition had absolutely nothing to do with the time when we know that her near-death OBE began: A full two hours and five minutes before the medical staff even began to cool her blood, during perfectly normal body temperature![19] (Again, see Figure 1.)

Unlike the other elements of her NDE, we can precisely time when Pam's OBE began because she did accurately describe an operating room conversation. Namely, she accurately recalled comments made by her cardiothoracic surgeon, Dr. Murray, about her "veins and arteries being very small" (Pam's words) (Sabom, "Light" 42). Two operative reports allow us to time this observation.

https://infidels.org/library/modern/keit...s.html#pam

Pam Reynold's NDE didn't occur when she was "flatlined." It's just another case of anesthesia awareness.

General anesthesia is the result of administering a trio of types of drugs: sedatives, to induce sleep or prevent memory formation; muscle relaxants, to ensure full-body paralysis; and painkillers. Inadequate sedation alone results in anesthesia awareness. Additionally, if insufficient concentrations of muscle relaxants are administered, a patient will be able to move; and if an inadequate amount of painkillers are administered, a patient will be able to feel pain (Woerlee, "Anaesthesiologist" 16). During a typical surgical procedure, an anesthesiologist must regularly administer this trio of drugs throughout the operation. But just prior to standstill, anesthetic drugs are no longer administered, as deep hypothermia is sufficient to maintain unconsciousness. The effects of any remaining anesthetics wear off during the warming of blood following standstill (G. Woerlee, personal communication, November 8, 2005).

About one or two in a thousand patients undergoing general anesthesia report some form of anesthesia awareness. That represents between 20,000 and 40,000 patients a year within the United States alone. A full 48% of these patients report auditory recollections postoperatively, while only 28% report feeling pain during the experience (JCAHO 10). Moreover, "higher incidences of awareness have been reported for caesarean section (0.4%), cardiac surgery (1.5%), and surgical treatment for trauma (11-43%)" (Bünning and Blanke 343). Such instances must at least give us pause about attributing Pam's intraoperative recollections to some form of out-of-body paranormal perception. Moreover, for decades sedative anesthetics such as nitrous oxide have been known to trigger OBEs.

https://infidels.org/library/modern/keit...s.html#pam

If Pam had truly been out of body and perceiving, both her auditory and visual sensations should've been accurate; but when it came to details that could not have been guessed or plausibly learned after the fact, only her auditory information was accurate.

https://infidels.org/library/modern/keit...s.html#pam

[Cecelia]

A lot of Howard Storms NDE strikes me as badly written fan fiction (as I explained in more detail in the other topic).  He says things that make sense on paper, but not in reality.  I'd also feel very comfortable calling him a liar about being an atheist.  His description of atheism is textbook Christian definition of Atheist.

[Angrboda]

OBErs who do not lose consciousness before their experiences often report watching their bodies continue to perform coordinated actions—as if they were still in control of their bodies—while nevertheless apparently viewing them from above. Recalling an OBE while on patrol for the first time, chasing an armed suspect, a police officer reported:

I promptly went out of my body and up into the air maybe 20 feet above the scene. I remained there, extremely calm, while I watched the entire procedure—including watching myself do exactly what I had been trained to do (Alvarado 183).

After the suspect had been restrained and the danger was over, the officer returned to normal consciousness. Another OBEr, who had been running for over 12 miles training for a marathon, reported:

I felt as if something was leaving my body, and although I was still running along looking at the scenery, I was looking at myself running as well (184).

This ability to simultaneously 'hover' above the scene and continue to function as if 'in' the body strongly suggests the hallucinatory nature of these experiences. In some sleep disorders, for instance, subjects are able to exhibit "directed" behavior—e.g., sleepwalking and sleep eating—even though they are evidently not normally conscious. Taking on an extraordinary new perspective while functioning normally otherwise makes much more sense if such experiences are occurring 'in' the body all along, rather than in some remote discarnate entity detached from the physical body.

https://infidels.org/library/modern/keit...HNDEs.html

[Little Rik]

It look like that the middle ages zombies are reincarnated here to strike once again under the disguise of atheists.  
The same people that yesterday were saying that the planet earth is the center of the universe today they say that the body-brain is ourselves so when the body die is all over.

How sad!  

[Whateverist]

It look like that the middle ages zombies are reincarnated here to strike once again under the disguise of atheists.  
The same people that yesterday were saying that the planet earth is the center of the universe today they say that the body-brain is ourselves so when the body die is all over.

How sad!  

Only sad for those who believe otherwise but can't make the world agree with their crazy-ass theories.  I guess you never thought of this, did you Rik?

[Little Rik]

It look like that the middle ages zombies are reincarnated here to strike once again under the disguise of atheists.  
The same people that yesterday were saying that the planet earth is the center of the universe today they say that the body-brain is ourselves so when the body die is all over.

How sad!  

Only sad for those who believe otherwise but can't make the world agree with their crazy-ass theories.  I guess you never thought of this, did you Rik?

Mate.  

You don't have to be a genius to know that a piece of matter can not possibly be you.
Body and brain are made of matter while the consciousness is not.
From here any demented idiot would understand that the consciousness is the real you rather than
your body-brain and if you are able to experience an NDE when your brain is 100% off then you know that you are immortal.

You never thought of that mate, did you?  

[robvalue]

Whether people are telling the truth about what they think happened while their brain was under extreme stress is very different to asking if it actually happened like they say. The former is rather irrelevant, and has no bearing on the latter.

Many people may well be telling the truth. But it gets us no closer to actual truth. Something testable is required.

[Angrboda]

From here any demented idiot would understand that the consciousness is the real you rather than
your body-brain and if you are able to experience an NDE when your brain is 100% off then you know that you are immortal.

Pam Reynolds' brain wasn't "100% off" when she had her NDE, moron.

https://infidels.org/library/modern/keit...s.html#pam